The Solution to the Abortion Issue

Yeah honestly,
our Earth is already overpopulated...and I am not saying that abortion is a good thing, but I think if there were the option of going about it THIS way... that it would only give naive girls more of a reason to be careless about sex. (and I am not saying that everyone who gets pregnant by accident, is careless...because I have been there)

But, you know?

There are already so many children living in and out of foster homes because they can't find a family to adopt them...

I don't know.

 

On kind of an aside, and not anti-choice in any way, but is the Earth actually over-populated? Is there a technical definition of "over-populated" we could go on? It's tricky because as Westerners we quite often think that it's over-populated if not everyone can enjoy the same quality of life that we do, but I don't know that that's really the same thing.

 

Here is an article... I mean, it's an article from the internet so of course it's not the word of god... but some info about overpopulation nonetheless:

http://www.overpopulation.net/

There are actually women who terminate pregnancies because they do not want to contribute to overpopulation... therefore, the op's idea would not be satisfactory to them.

 

It's a nice article. I'll be honest, the "if trends continue" angle at the start makes some pretty big assumptions - i.e. that because population growth is slowing down, it will continue to do so until it actually stops. I'm also confused by the apocalyptic tone of the article; it talks about "zero population growth" as if the human race will die out the second it happens. There's no real reason to think that - zero population growth would be achieved if, say, all couples had two children.

All that said, the stats are interesting, even if the analysis of them is very subjective.

Over women who abort because they don't want to contribute to over-population... I don't know, that seems kinda like an excuse, doesn't it? I don't know of anyone who doesn't have sex because of over-population! But this sort of thing is why I wonder whether over-population is measurably happening. It's difficult what with us being intelligent beings; in nature, when over-population occurs, offspring start dying and eventually the "balance" is restored. With humans, we have the option not to breed - we are not completely at the whim of our instincts - and if a few of us choose not to, that may be a preferable alternative to getting to the point where our children die of starvation.

 

I don't know if it's an excuse or not since I'm not one of those women. I read an article about a woman who said she didn't want to contribute to over-population and even asked her doctor to sterilize her (doctor refused saying she'd change her mind). She was on the pill but accidently got pregnant by her husband. She had an abortion and at that time insisted she be sterilized. So no, she didn't give up sex because of overpopulation... but she did have an abortion for that reason.

To me personally, that's extreme (but the woman was really adamant about her reasoning, and for her, she really felt she was doing better for the world)... I'm just trying to throw it out there that the issue is not as black and white as the op made it out to be.

 

And with your theory "being that we're intelligent beings", we wouldn't be facing the abortion issue, as everyone who didn't want children, would refrain from sex...
comparable to your theory about humans having the ability to choose not to have sex, to avoid overpopulation.

And, I tend to disagree that we're all that intelligent, and that we are above and beyond our instincts. We might think we are, but we have no measure to say whether or not most of our decisions are conscious vs. based on instinct. The decisions that we consciously make could majorly be, because of our instincts.

If I were you, I wouldn't be so confident in the human race...
Like I said, under that notion, would abortion even be an issue at all in the first place?!

I also want to say, I get EVER SO tired of anyone mentioning abstaining from sex for this reason or that reason, as if it is quite that simple.
Sex IS part of our nature... probably our hugest survival instinct, as a human race... on top of so many other things (sex being emotionally and mentally beneficial, as well as physically too)

I am not saying it is impossible to abstain...people do, do it all the time.
But I don't think everyone's reply to any topic based around sexual issues should be "or...you could abstain"

I think if that were an option for these people/topics, it would have been done already. AND I think that response is lazy and ignorant.
The end.

 

To clarify, when I say we're "intelligent", I don't mean we're all geniuses. But we're mostly aware that our actions have consequences (Mostly), and compared to, say, bacteria, we are aware of our surroundings enough to notice if we were breeding out of control, if our offspring were dying en masse.

But don't get me wrong, I'm very much in favour of the right to abort. I don't think it's something most people do lightly, and I think the "is a foetus aware at [x amount of months], or is it just a clump of cells?" argument is a complete red herring thrown out there by pro-lifers to misframe the debate. Ultimately, it is about whether the mother has more right to control over her destiny that her child, and it seems faintly absurd that anyone other than her should get to decide that, least of all the Church.

 

I suppose... but I think you misunderstood that I was trying to say that, despite being aware of it, I don't know how much that would change the way we sexually reproduce or not. Meh. I don't really think it's much worth discussing anyway.

I definitely agree with you... though, it doesn't have a lot to do with the topic.

As for the OP, I wonder if, say, that option WERE realistic, if it's something I would have considered when I had to deal with my situation... I'm really not sure. I mean, ultimately in essence it seems more humane, but I don't think that's really for anyone to judge or decide...

Never the less, I don't think it's a realistic idea, plain and simple.

And in the end, I really think the whole abortion debate is ridiculous to begin with. I think, no offense, what Pro-Lifers need to understand...is that, just because they could never fathom, what it's like to be a woman in a position where abortion seems like an option (and possibly becomes the solution) that it STILL isn't for them to decide, regardless, no matter what their personal beliefs are. They have every right, to never themselves, have an abortion, and so they can live by that all the want, and no one is going to force them to be a "baby killer"

I also want to say, that, if Pro-Lifers want to put an end to abortion, they need to come up with other plans/alternatives/solutions. They need to realize that it isn't so simple to just ban it, and be over with it...and ignore every other issue at hand.

For example, they need to start considering that before fighting to ban abortion,maybe they should be fighting for the right for men and women alike to have more freedom in choosing to be sterlized (instead of being rejected for being too young, or not having children/enough children)...

They need to start thinking about how they're going to handle rape victims,
how they're going to handle young girls that get pregnant,
and how to better educate those young girls in the first place,
etc.

I get SO sick of hearing this debate, because it isn't just a black and white matter... it isn't just a matter of whether or not a woman should have THIS right, but other issues that tie into it.

There needs to be more freedom with sexual rights, in the first place, before we take away this right....IF it came to that.

Dig?

 

Well, I don't know that many people just abandon their children, at least not in our culture. We're capable of feeling guilt, which animals (far as we know) aren't, and that makes us less likely to do it.

Have to say, if it's really the case in America that doctors are able to just dismiss people's wishes like that, that's pretty bad. There are various contraceptives in England that work in the long- or medium-term, but from what I've heard you guys have got chemists that just flat out refuse to dispense the pill, so I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't readily available. If medical workers withheld legitimate treatment just because they happened to hold certain personal beliefs in this country, there'd be a fucking scandal.

 

You're telling me! They ban the wrong people on this site.

 

Why do just leave it at that though? Since you consider abortion the safer route, why don't you demand that they remove the fetus alive instead of killing it?

 

I guess because it would require invasive surgery and be costly for the sake of it.

 

healthy babies do not grow up in orphanages. i know a woman today who would adopt anyone's baby. adoption is a great choice for someone who doesn't want an abortion. if you're worried about feeling guilty later in life because you've had an abortion it's a viable concern and should be considered. i know many women who had abortions that now regret that decision later in their lives.

unhealthy drug babies sometimes don't get adopted because they're riddled with problems but even they are in high demand.

only abandoned older children or children with illnesses and disabilities grow up in orphanages and foster care.

 

of course it's difficult to birth a baby and then give it up to someone else to raise ... yet, it's a very loving and selfless act for the baby and the couple who has been waiting and praying for a child. if a woman chooses this over a selfish act (abortion) she is a better and stronger person than i was when i considered abortion myself, but had an early miscarriage instead.

i think we *pro-choicers* fool ourselves when we view abortion as not selfish. it's totally selfish. women who chose abortion have to live with the consequences afterward, some have no problems with it, some are tormented by it ... truth be told.

 

I'd agree with that, but then, to some extent, everything we do is selfish. Is it any less selfish to alleviate the guilt you'd feel for aborting a child by going through with the birth and bringing up a child they resent? It's a bugger because we're fighting for people to have the choice, not for the absolutes that some "pro-lifers" hold dear. We need to fight harder than them.

 

if a woman gives up the child for adoption she won't be bringing up the child ... someone else will.

 

Why are assumptions being made that a woman who has an abortion is being selfish? Do you know every single woman who has had an abortion and her reasoning behind it? There ARE consequences to live with by putting up a child for adoption that could be just as difficult, if not MORE difficult to a woman's psyche than having an abortion. For me personally, I wouldn't want to give up a child for adoption because, quite frankly, I don't trust the majority of people and don't trust that my offspring would be raised in a way I would see fit. It would haunt me to think that perhaps my child was being raised in an unhappy environment. This is also the reason why I wouldn't want my offspring to be raised by a special "organization" like the op suggests. To me, that's not selfish because it would be the child I'd constantly worry about... not myself.

I don't know if you were arguing from a pro-life stance or just trying to point out the benefits of adoption (which, of course, I'm not putting down that choice in any way... just saying it's not a comfortable choice for everyone). I just wanted to throw it out there that a woman isn't necessarily selfish by choosing abortion or torment-free by choosing adoption. It's all grey people!!! :cheers:

 

if you've ever seen a developing fetus it's really hard to deny the fact that, despite what ANYONE says, there a little baby developing that would be a life if not terminated. terminating this life is a selfish act. women have the right to terminate the life ... just because the government says it's ok and legal doesn't mean she won't have lasting, haunting, memories about what she did. there's no grey area here. a woman should go into this decision with her eyes wide open.

you raise the point that you wouldn't trust others with your offspring to raise the way *you see fit* ..... that's a selfish statement in itself. while a woman who gives her baby up for adoption might wonder about it's welfare and not be torment free, she will always know, she gave HER flesh and blood life and hopefully gave a loving childless family their dream of raising a child they couldn't have, this is not selfish it is selfless of the woman.

would a woman rather have the guilt of abortion for her life or the *torment* of wondering how her offspring was doing? it's a good question to ask women considering this. planned parenthood doesn't ask this question, but maybe they should.

i know a woman who is 47 now and has 8 abortions and could care less about any one of them. i know a few women who are in their late 30's who had 1 abortion in their late teens or early 20's that are living with guilt today about it and are pissed NO ONE told them they would feel so bad about it later. they have all confessed that they would have preferred the adoption alternative but in our day, abortion was the way to go because the fetus was not considered any type of life. of course we all know now, because we've had children and seen what they look like in-utero on ultrasounds that indeed, it looks like a tiny baby afterall.

 

You're making assumptions. What if the pregnant woman cannot carry the baby because her own life would be put at risk, and this woman has other children who need her. Would terminating for the sake of her other children be considered selfish? Again, it IS grey.

Let me clarify. By how I "see fit" I was not talking about minor lifestyle choices like what kind of food the child will eat... but the fact that there are many abusive individuals out there. Sure, the chance that your offspring ends up with that kind of family is slim... but for me personally, I would be tormented by that for rest of my life. Sure, I could "hope" I made the right decision... but I will never know.

Absolutely, this is something a woman should ask herself... I agree wholeheartedly. Why should planned parenthood ask this question though? Planned parenthood is not staffed by therapists, they are staffed by nurses and doctors.

The fact that there are some women who feel guilty about having an abortion is not hidden. It's brought up in the debate constantly. It's too bad that these women didn't do a little research before undergoing this surgical procedure, because realistically... the medical community doesn't tell people a LOT of things about what they are about to be subjected to. But that's a whole other issue. Also, it's kinda pointless as a 30 year old to look back on decisions made as a 20 year old. They were in a different place in life. Who knows if they really would have put the child up for adoption if they knew the guilt they would later face? It's easier to say would have, should have, could have after the fact.

Again... research before ANY procedure is recommended so people can make educated CHOICES for THEMSELVES. Even in "our day" there are many, many pro-life individuals who provide plenty of information and arguments about a fetus being alive. You'd have to be living in a bubble to not be aware of that argument.

Too bad the plan B pill isn't more readily available so that a potential unwanted conception could be avoided. Too bad so many girls/women don't understand what the plan B pill even is.

 

if a woman terminiates her pregnancy because her life is at risk, which is rare, it's not a grey area, it's actually a different issue altogether.

planned parenthood does provide so-called counseling to women seeking abortions. they don't just give a woman an abortion without making her watch video's about how terrible her life would be as a single mother with a baby living in poverty. they NEVER suggest or even mention adoption as an alternative, from what i'm aware of and if they do now, they don't provide resources, phone numbers or any information regarding this option.

in the 80's there was no internet or way to do research about abortion. there was no plan B pill. it was have an abortion or a baby. it's one reason why pregnancy counseling centers (pro-life organizations) popped up everywhere, to give women an alternative ... which is the other extreme if you've ever been to one of these places that dangle *free pregnancy testing* signs to lure in scared pregnant girls.

what if these two extremes were to meet and offer complete solutions/choices/options to women instead of one extreme or the other. i wonder what percentage of women would choose abortion or adoption then?