The selfishness of childbirth

That is absolutely hilarious!! you made my day...still chuckling...lol

 

People try to make having kids sound like a bad thing. From what I've seen,it's nature. It's what happens when people or animals mate. It's completely natural,and it's how it is.

 

id love to give birth to a kid that is guranteed not to be mentally handicapped, that is one reason i always said i wouldnt have one...That existing really scares me along with the other stuff...

If i ever did have a family id be on both sides of the argument here...Selfish in that itd be awesome to watch a kid grow up and not selfish in that i would want to give him a unheard of amount of what i call my sesame street love

All that is out the window though because its guranteed i cant have kids, i dont ejaculate these days...I got hit in the balls there a couple months ago a couple times pretty damn hard and now my package dont work right....Thats life though..Gotta take the path :grinch:

 

Despite how things 'should' be in the world of 'should', I don't think I've ever heard a parent describe how much of a blessing they found their child to be. Nor have I seen a parent who totally put themselves a side to raise their child in some sort of "self-sacrificing" way. Maybe that's what parents should do, maybe that's what they don't do, who's to speak for everybody?

 

my mom never did anything for herself. she never bought herself anything, she never went out by herself. She always put me first and she was always with me.


Thats just me, thats just my mom. There are children in this world who are constantly pushed off on babysitters because the parents can't stand to be with them and would rather go party, there are children who are beaten, completely ignored, there are those freaky pageant children whose mothers are living vicariously through them.

Parents are people. You can't make broad statements about people and you can't make broad statements about parents. If a person is selfish before they have a child, they may be selfish after they have a child. Then again, they may turn their lives around and give up everything for the sake of their child. Likewise, some of the most generous people in the world can be so generous with the outside world and treat their kids like shit. Or they could be equally generous with their children.

Everyone is different.

 

I'm glad you didn't end up so attached.

Parents are people. You can't make broad statements about people and you can't make broad statements about parents.

 

Come now. You really think I had to look towards conservatism and fundamentalism to derive my picture of the general ideology of the masses? Look at the media, tv and entertainment, arts, literature, theology, mainstream politics. I don't even have to look outside my family - my sisters both are desparate to get pregnant and both hold the view that they are doing their part for the world by this. But telling you this is futile. It would take pages and pages for me to elaborate on what I think the common view is, and I apologise for thinking that yours would be the same as mine. That was stupid of me.

 

What do you mean to say by this? That she acted selflessly? I don't think it's that simple. We heard someone earlier in this thread who regarded his/her child as an extension of him/herself. Seen in that light this kind of selflessness isn't so innocent.

 

I know a lot of people who have kids because they want to give a new life good things. Some of the sweetest most loving parents have almost no material wealth but are rich in their heart and soul. I know those kids too. They are beautiful fun-loving little pups happy to be alive and eager to learn. They will enrich the world we all live in. They are not complicated by a greedy society nor or they met with scorn simply for having been born.

Walsh old boy, I didn't take it personal. I just think you don't know what you're talking about thats all. All of my adopted kids have been in touch with their birth parents. I saw to that. They needed to hear their story. Each was conceived by loving but flawed people. People who ultimately realized that to best express love for their kid they would need to be raised by someone else. Heart breaking stories, all of them. Thats where many adoptive parents come into the picture as they have done through our time. Perhaps there are people who want trophy kids...they sure are not the majority.

 

Yeah you can, theres not that much variation.

Insurance companies, advertising agencies and financial institutions do it all the time.

 

I am attached to my mommy lol. She's my greatest friend.

and you repeated what I said why?

Well of course the child is an extension of self, especially to a mother. It GROWS inside of a mother for 9 months. Its an extension like a tree is an extension of the earth.

I don't understand whats not innocent about that.

A parent doesn't love a child because of some twisted form of narcissism, if thats what you're suggesting. A parent loves a child because....its natural. Its that simple. You're arguing against instinct and human nature.

 

Are you implying I live in a society governed by such laws?

 

Because I found that statement ironic after reading the entirety of your post.

 

What a dumb thread.

My kids going to grow up like a warrior. Grounding sucks, kids need to do push ups.

 

Aren't these the same assholes who brought the world to its knees because of their greedy practices...Yes in fact they are. So are you suggesting that they really know or give a shit about people and their motives. You can't base anything of value on what business and finance does. They were born without souls or sold their soul for a handful of change.

 

So your argument wasn't conservative/Christian based... you still originally made a blanket judgement about everyone who is a parent then looked to divert the argument when you were called on it. You are most definitely free to your opinion and we are free to differ.

I have heard talk of child bearing as a selfish act through the media... certainly when paparazzi tail a celebrity mom with kid the tabloids that carry the photos would almost certainly not be fawning over the selfless act of parenting- more likely they will suggest that the mom (or dad) is an unfit parent in one way or another.

I have little doubt that there are parents who fit your thesis to a tee but your original supposition that it describes every last parent- an assertion you appear to be trying to vacate while preserving the stance of opposition- is not reasonable. Upon reading your opening salvo, a reasonable person might conclude that you are trying to provoke as opposed to establishing a point of view that you're prepared to defend.

You're shifting your stance and accusing people of not understanding what the discussion is about when they have made no specific topical references but have simply commented on a blanket statement you made.

I think you sidestepped yarapario by suggesting that he wasn't comprehending the topic when it seemed pretty clear to me that he grasped the fact that you chose to make a broad generalization about an entire segment of the population and he gave some examples of exceptions to your claim that every parent is a parent for purely selfish reasons... You diverted to it being how society views the motivation for childbirth and not "everyone's" selfishness as established in post number one.

Shall we review that again?

 

Because I used several different examples of both selfish and unselfish parenting?

 

No, because your examples are essentially stereotypes. Until you interview every single parent (and please do get back to me on that), please do not illustrate that you have the range of them covered over the internet. It makes you sound awfully naive. Wouldn't you prefer to expand your mind?

 

There was nothing to sidestep, since yarapario's post didn't have any actual content to it besides a cheap ad hominem suggesting I didn't know what I was talking about, but since he did not even support that conclusion with any kind of reasoning how could you expect me to reply?

I don't want to divert the topic, truly. But who in this thread has engaged with my argument of selfishness? No one except yarapario, who provided little of substance. I don't retract my initial statement. And yes, it's a generalization, which I never denied. It would be impossible to discuss this topic by extensional methods - by referring to specific persons rather than exploring popular ideas inherent to our culture.

 

Maybe simply being is a selfish act, and we should all kill ourselves. I'll get the koolaid.