The Psychedelic Revolution

from my experience, even though life can repeat itself sometimes, ultimately it is about growth and expansion, and progression. things can be eternal but yet not cyclical. life is much more than our 3rd dimensional perspective here. it's hard to even fathom.

well, hitler derived his purpose, and so do many other pastors and terrorists and religious people. but whether that is their true purpose or not is very questionable. because as soon as you start seeing condemnation, killing, and things of the sort, then you can start to concieve that those things are negative. then you have to ask yourself, if there was a god, would he want injustice and murder? or would he want peace? do you think that he would be cruel? or do you think that god is good? so do you really think that those people were tapping into their true purpose? doubtful. any religion that does not relink mankind to his creator is evil.

people can do whatever they want. but that still doesn't change the fact that we were all created unique and intended to fulfill a unique purpose. you can easily justify anything as being your purpose, but what cause is that going to have? i have always thought of true purpose being defined from unconditional, selfless love. the definition of love can cover all aspects of the human experience. true purpose is derived from the understanding that we are all one, and that the things we do to eachother we do to ourselves.

like they said it comes from the surrender to suffering. but that does not mean that one day there won't be a cosmic evolution. this is what the buddhists refer to as the end of suffering. the freeing from the cycles of life and death on this planet.

yea, i'm getting tired of this too. this is going nowhere. i'm always going to have something to respond to the things you guys say, and aparently you guys are always going to refute me. so i think that there was been enough discourse in this thread to make any concerned or interested person think about things. i might as well stop posting.

 

Yup, discussions that are mainly rooted in personal opinion and experience almost always go this way. There can never be a "right" answer, just right opinions, at least right for the person expressing them.

Let's all just agree to disagree, hug and make-up.:grouphug:
So let's talk about the weather instead. It's a nice sunny day in So.Cal.
How is it where you live?:cheers2:

 

You have then a particular dexterity with fathoming?

People are not the authors of death or life. They are the authors of their own experience. Your mind is a kingdom you alone can rule.

The evidence is actually that we exist for and with each other. Our bodies, common biological stock. Sexual dimorphism a reproductive strategy of the species.

You may be comfortable with the boundaries you set for yourself, however they suffocate me.

 

It's all good people. I find this entire thread to be a very useful debate. Keep in mind that when they were writing the Declaration of Independence it wasn't an easy and light-hearted discussion going on. It was a heated, intense, and very opinionated debate, on drenchy and extremely humid summer days (i believe).

 

I can't disagree with this. It's gotta be possible to just rise above suffering completely, and obviously it wouldn't happen overnight, but like you said, a cosmic evolution. It's gotta be fucking possible.

This is what 2012 represents for me. Is it nonsense to think that such radical shifts could happen so soon? On the surface it seems so. But i feel like this is all waay beyond our comprehension.

The point is is that radical change is happening NOW, i see it every single day. It's basically the entire outline of my life at this point in time and history. And it's constantly expanding and merging with everything and everyone around me. Everyone i know and see is going through intense change right now. Am i the only one that can say such a thing? If not, please speak up.

So if shit is happening at such an accelerated and intense rate NOW, who knows what the fuck things are gonna be like by the time 2012 comes around and kicks into gear, other than that it's gonna be fucking amazing....

 

Exactly, but there is no suffering externally.
Suffering IS only perception and reaction.
A nail going through your foot is just a nail going through your foot. It's you inside who suffers.

 

yes, and that holds true for all we experience as being "out there".

It all only takes shape and meaning in our brains amongst our synapses.

 

maybe once you learn to be suffocated then you can be truly free. the way is narrow.

sunny, blue skies... mmm yea :coffee:

i hold it true that

1) there is an infinite, changless, reality beneath the world of change

2) this same reality lies at the core of every human personality

3) the purpose of life is to discover this reality experientially: that is, to realize God while here on earth

 

hoo boy.
You've heard of the butterfly effect right?
Imagine the resounding implications of Hitler's rise to power have had on history and the world. World War II was monumental, it completely changed the world and created, and just like everything else, created the reality you know today.
There is no way for you to know if it was for the greater good or not. For all you know, if Hitler hadn't rose to power, the Earth would have been destroyed by now.

 

And in the early years of his power Hitler did great things for Germany and helped bring the country up out of horrendous poverty. You don't often hear about the good he did early on.
But he was all in all a very disturbed and sick individual none the less.
And a meth addict, but then again JFK was also very fond of methamphetamine.

 

Yea i mean perhaps the hippie movement never would have existed if it wasn't for Hitler. In fact, it's doubtful. As we all hopefully know, the generation prior to the hippie movement had an enormous impact on the hippie movement itself.

And Desos, you're just preferring the good over the bad. You're still being dualistic man. You're saying all these things about God being good if it even exists in the first place. You're still stuck in the dogmatic duality, no different than every other religion out there.

I think we all prefer "good" over "bad", but that's simply because that's what defines both of them. Good is literally defined by the fact that you want it, while bad is literally defined by the fact that it's resisted. But still, you shouldn't necessarily be striving for one and pushing away the other. Welcome to the world of suffering. You should be ready to embrace either one.

 

Exactly. It seems to me that the 60s were a direct response to the sterility, coziness and safeness of big brother government and propaganda of the 50s, which were a direct response to the horrible atrocities and tragedies that people witnessed in the 40s with WWII.
In the 50s, people needed the suburban life, they needed to feel safe after what they had gone through in the 40s and they embraced the source of that safety.
Everything is related. It's extremely short-sighted to say "This thing was immediately negative, so it was bad and someone must have neglected their purpose". In the greater scheme of things, we have no idea how everything fits together and to what end. In the greater scheme of things, we don't even truly know what is good or what is bad, or even if those two things exist at all.

His thoughts, at least how he expresses them here, are extremely Judeo-Christian.

 

To a degree you are correct, except I would expand on your thoughts about the 50's and the response to WWII.
A lot of the uprising in the 60's was due to the Vietnam war, as the war and our involvement in it increased, so did the "hippie" movement.

Two very important things need to be remembered about the two times.
1) We were in WWII mainly because the US was attacked. We were not in the war until Pearl Harbor. Vietnam was a blunder-fuck that we just slowly got dragged into, so there was no underlying sense of patriotism and the sense of protecting our homeland. Also what was going on in Europe far exceeded what was happening in Vietnam as far as impact on the rest of the world, and there were two fascist regimes in power, Hitler and Mussolini. The only thing going on in Vietnam that compares was Cambodia and Pol Pot.
The average soldier in WWII was there because they wanted to be there and had a moral sense of "rightness" about their personal participation in the war.

2) The average age of a soldier in WWII was 25-26.
The average age of a soldier in Vietnam was 19-20.
In WWII it was men fighting and dieing. In Vietnam it was kids, mostly fresh out of high school.

You aren't much older than most Vietnam draftees, Neo, Try to put yourself in that positon of being an infantryman with your coping skills and level of maturity. Not saying you are immature, but there is a difference in coping skills and maturity between a 19 year old and a 26 year old. Add to that the fact that the majority of Vietnam era soldiers were not there by choice, didn't really comprehend why they were there and had no moral "rudder" of the rightness of their actions to ground and guide them.

After WWII the country had a sense of having accomplished something and that the losses where worth the end result, which is essentially true.
Vietnam left the country feeling like a used and abused street whore that got slapped in the face after taking it in the ass. The losses we suffered in Vietnam were just that, losses with no worthwhile return on investment.
I guarantee you, if it were not for our involvement in Vietnam, the "hippie" movement would never have gotten off the ground like it did.

I will say that LSD did play an integral role in the movement, but that role got started in the 40's and 50's in that it did open a lot of peoples eyes to a lot, and not just "spiritual" crap.
Before LSD mental illness was always looked at as a "defect" of personality or upbringing, classic Freudian. After LSD the idea of biological and physical causes of mental illness began to be explored.
It also caused a re-assesment of what was religion and spirituality.
One other small and often overlooked event that also helped fuel the movement in contrast to life in the 50's was the advent of the birth control pill. Prior to that sex more often than not led to pregnancy which led to the creation of a new family unit and therefore the burgeoning suburbs. People simply did not have the option of having a sexual relationship without the eventuality of a family resulting. (yeah, condoms I know, but they weren't that popular or readily available to young people)

Birth control changed all that and had a more far reaching effect on the concept of family and the family unit then is often realized. Give it some thought and I think you will see the impact it had on society as a whole.

I once eons ago had a philosophy professor who said that there were two pills that changed the world more than anything else;
LSD and Birth control.
I tend to agree with him on that one.

 

Oh I'm aware and did not intend to downplay the factor that Vietnam had in the 60s. My main point with that post was trying to draw a sociological connection between what went on in the 40s and then the 60s.
I think the nature of the 50s as well as the nature of the Vietnam War is what contributed to the outcry against it and the psychedelic movement as we know it.
You bring up a good point about our involvement in Vietnam as well.
Considering what WWII did for our country and our economy, as well as some of our competitors, it could be argued that if it wasn't for WWII we wouldn't have gotten involved in Vietnam in the first place. Actually it's certain. The result of WWII and the resulting Cold War was really the advent of the United States' "global police" self-perception.

I've noticed a trend in your posts PB, this tendency to keep bringing up age.
So.......what's up with that?

 

Neo, re-read my post, I posted it before I was done .Don't know how I did that, but...

 

You'll understand when your older

 

I'm reading this historical overview by PB and listening to "Cosmic Egg" by Wolfmother. It's just blowing my mind i'm getting like a cosmic overview of things.

PB, please give me your honest take on the "2012 phenomena".

But first, before you reply...despite all of the new age hype about it, do you feel it conceivable that something intense could sort of boil over at this point in history? To me it's just like obvious timing. Like i felt that way before i even knew anything about 2012.

And what i mean by the new age hype...I just mean, don't compare it to the Y2K shit. I'm talking about something much more vast and all-encompassing.

Not like a sudden end-of-the-world sort of thing. But something very similar to The Depression, WWII, the 1960s, 9/11, The Recession, and now 2012. It just makes sense to me. But that's just me.

But i want your thoughts, and anyone else's for that matter. Writer, Neo, thedope, Desos. But coming from a fresh perspective. A naked look at it.

Or if you want me to just shut up about 2012 then i will. But i mean this all very much ties into the original intent and title of this thread in my opinion. If there's gonna be any kind of revolution it's gonna happen at this time. Which really means 2010-2012 and onward...

 

Seriously though, the reason I may bring up age isn't because I think I'm some wise old sage gonna teach all you youngsters, it's about perception.
I see and read so often MY thoughts and passions when I was 20 something echoed in a lot of you guys in these discussions. That causes me to reflect and realize how much more I have learned and how those passions have changed and how my perspective on these heavy topics has been shaped and refined.
Like I have told Desos numerous times, just because I may have an opposing or different viewpoint now, don't for a second think I didn't share a lot of the same passions and yearning for truth and such that you guys exhibit. A lot of them I still do have, but they have been tempered by years.

I know it sounds so fucking cliché' but it is very very true, There are some things you guys just don't get yet because your young. Is your understanding and comprehension of life the same as it was when you were 15? I doubt it, and you would most likely look back on some of your thoughts and ideas from then now and think "wow, I sure have grown in my understanding", although at the time you were hellfire certain of you beliefs and position. Same holds true now for you at 21, and for me as well at 48. I'm sure I will look back at some of the things I have expressed here in these forums and think "What the fuck was I thinking"

It's funny how all you young psychedelic users will talk with a sense of respect and reverence about shamans and "tribal elders" for want of a better term, but not consider that the old farts right next to you or across the internet may have a thing or two to share that they learned by living longer. It's called wisdom. It can't be taught in a classroom, can't be learned from a book or correspondence course.
Wisdom is only gained by living life, plain and simple.

What I really can't wrap my head around is why some of you younger people take such personal offense at that concept.
I'm not, nor have I ever said any of you were stupid due to your age, just sometimes it is apparent to us older folks that some of you still have a lot to learn, and that learning only comes with living.

I have a neighbor who is pretty much as dumb as a bag of rocks, but he'll completely floor me with the level of wisdom and insight he can express about things in life. He is in his 70's.

Does that explain it better, sonny-boy?

 

Geez, no need to ramble on like an old man PB, I was just having some fun.

 

Well, there is something about it, astronomically at the very least.
And there are some interesting time cycle convergences that all culminate on Dec. 21 2012.
I personally don't think that there is going to be any great revolution surrounding that date. But I don't know, maybe we will get nailed by a comet or something. I do feel that the planet is at a saturation point as far as the population is concerned and the old girl may be getting ready to shake off the fleas so to speak.

But as far as all the hype surrounding 2012, I feel it's just that, hype.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. good thing we don't have too long to wait.