The Horrors of christianity

Haha, nope - I don't think I'll be doing it any time soon, but I'll bare it in mind

 

I've just realised.. that phrase really doesn't mean what it's supposed to, does it? At least what I meant it to..
Do you mean you're doubting him.. or do you not doubt him? I've confused myself - lets clear that up before I try and go any further

 

LOL You understand. But let's wait and let desert-rat speak up for himself. :-D

 

Most people dont fully understand how the law of attraction works . Lets say you spend 10 min. saying I need more money and the next 50 min of that hour thinking that you have very little money , well that little money part is where most of there mental energy is put . There is a lot more to this tho . We all have reppressed unconscious stuff , this creates a lot of what happnes to us . The real key is to get to that reppressd stuff and let it go . Some of the basic ideas are the movie "the secret " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Me0hju71Tw"]The Secret Rhonda Byrne FULL MOVIE.flv - YouTube desert rat

 

I can't stream this stuff from my location.

What is the law of attraction. For every action there is an equal and complementary reaction. Like calls unto like, male and female creative aspect, each according to their own kind.

A pursuit is an example of the law of attraction. Consisting of the pursuer and the pursued,(male/female creative principle), both contributing equally
to the phenomena of pursuit, (each according to their own kind).

This is an overtly visible example of the law but the law takes effect initially and eventually at large at the conceptual level. A single fleeting thought is enough to create a reaction. The more you cultivate a thought the more circumstances appear around that represent the complementary reactions of that thought.

 

On the movie " the secret " you may be able to buy , rent , or as I did down load it form a torrent site . Basicly we all create our reality , good , bad , consciously , unconsciously . Hear is a wiki link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction Steve Pavlina"s blog http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/08/the-law-of-attraction/ Erin Pavlina has about 5 different posts on l.o.a. http://www.erinpavlina.com/ desert rat
p.s. not ever one sees l.o.a. in exactly the same way , but thats ok .

 

desert-rat:

Sure, but that does not translate as

"If some one does suffer at the hands of some one else it is because on some level they agreed to it"

Do you think that one can unconsciously agree to being harmed?
That is like the religious argument that everyone gets what they deserve, where in reality we only give it.

The rape victim was never raped? The murder victim was not murdered? If you want some kind of heavenly rejoinder to take place, you do not deny what has already taken place.

 

I am not stating that the l.o.a. and repressed materal is a legal excuse for rape or murder . It is up to the person commiting the act to know rite from wrong . The person who might be raped or killed has some thing buried in there subconscious , and would attract in to there life the type of person that would commit that kind of act . The point is to know how this works , deal with the repressed stuff and not have this happen . desert rat

 

desert-rat:

No.

Another excuse then?

 

What about when men rape 4 year olds and lower?

 

It's obviously because of all that negative energy four year olds carry around.

 

:ack2:

 

Sorry to come to the table so late. I've been out of pocket for awhile.

My reaction to these "horrors" is that they're really horrible, but they happened some time ago, and reflect an unfortunate period of Christian history associated with the institution of the Church. When I say I'm a Christian, I mean that I've chosen Jesus as a role model and find his essential teachings to be the ones I want to live my life by. I also find that I'm pretty much in synch with various groups of Progressive Christians with whom I take fellowship. We haven't burned anyone at the stake lately. To me, Jesus was a prototypical hippie who preached unconditional love, especially for society's rejects. The Gospel according to Luke is the one that particularly moves me, and I'm not sure I'd be using the Christian label if that hadn't been written. There are a number of subsequent developments that were majorly important in the evolution of Christian memes into the world religion of today but that I really don't dig that much.

What the world knows as Christianity today owes probably as much to Saint Paul as to Jesus. Saint Paul never met Jesus in the flesh, but only in a vision. He was largely responsible for the view that the most important thing about Jesus was His death and resurrection. His life and teachings were side issues. But the promise of being saved and having eternal life was a big draw.

There was competition within Christianity during the first few centuries. Ebionites saw Jesus as the Jewish Messiah, but only God's adopted son, not a deity. They emphasized His mission to the poor--that's what Ebionite means. Gnostics saw Jesus as divine but sent to awaken believers to new insights into spiritual reality. Both factions lost the battle to the Paulists. If they'd won this forum wouldn't exist, because Christianity would never have gotten off the ground.

They lost to the folks who thought Christianity needed more organization and doctrinal unity, e.g., Irenaeus of Leon who pushed the primacy of the bishops and decided we needed a canon of only four gospels because there were four corners of the earth and four winds. It sure helped the church in its competition with pagans, but at the price of suppressing contrary views as heresy.

There were a number of great Christian leaders who were tolerant, rational and enlightened. The ones I find inspiring are Saint Justin Martyr (who said that atheists who were guided by reason should be treated as Christians), Clement of Alexandria, who was deeply sympathetic to pagan philosophy, and Origen, who taught that the Bible should be viewed as metaphor and allegory. But the more dogmatic, aggressive types like Tertullian, Irenaeus, Cyril of Alexandria, and Athanasius won out.

The biggest turning point came when the bishops got into bed with Constantine, who credited a sign from Jesus with a great military victory. After that, the Prince of Peace became General Jesus. Constantine provided subsidies for the churches from the Imperial treasury, but to qualify, of course, they had to be truly Christian, since there were limits to the imperial coffers. To identify the true Christians, he let them duke it out, opening a sorry new chapter in the development of Christian doctrine. At least Constantine didn't dictate doctrine himself. That was left to Theodosius I, who imposed the doctrine of the Trinity. I'm in a church group now that's studying this stuff, and the member, all good Christians, are amazed that with all the politics going on God was able to guide us to the truth. lol.

I agree with def that free will is the best explanation, whether or not you're comfortable with it. What does that mean? Whether God is omnipotent and omniscient is a matter of semantics. I'm persuaded by process theologian Charles Hartshorne, in Omnipotence and other theological mistakes, that when an omnipotent, omniscient being chooses to limit his omnipotence and omniscience for whatever reason (relief from boredom, artistic statement, etc.), this doesn't negate the initial omnipotence. But I have no problem with saying God may not be omnipotent and/or omniscient. Just awfully potent and smart. Hartshorne and the Catholic mystic paleontologist Tielhard de Chardin believe that God confers free will not just on humans but on subatomic particles. Hence the uncertainty principle in quantum mechanics. Or stating this in a way that is less offensive to an atheist audience, whatever is responsible for the laws of physics in our universe provides an element of indeterminism. God doesn't prevent us from committing atrocities or preventing natural calamities because these are the results of natural law--human nature and physical reality. In other words, I'm cool with Deist and Pantheist concepts of God. Also, with the idea that God is so far beyond our conceptions that we can't fathom why He does anything, any more than my dogs can figure out why I have a cow when they shit on the rug.

But we have ways of bringing order and harmony to our lives by following enlightened teachers who are in synch with the principles of natural law. Jesus comes to mind. Was He divine? The Gospel of John identifies Him with the Logos, a concept of Hellenistic philosophy which was brilliantly expounded by the first century Jewish philosopher, Philo of Alexandria, who identifies it with Wisdom in Jewish scripture, and describes it in terms that would fit the laws of science today. The example and teachings of Jesus show the way to reconcile human fallibility with natural law in a harmonious way. Progressive Christians today tend to accept this explanation for the Theodicy paradox (How can a Good and omnipotent deity permit evil). We are admittedly outnumbered by "Christians" who prefer certainty and personal salvation to peace, love and understanding. What would Jesus say?

 

Most of the repressed stuff is from past lives . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation I have taken this thread well off the oigonal path . If any wants to continue this it would be better to this in a parnormal / med. phy. part of this forum . desert rat

 

:frown: I like your posts generally, but these just leave a bad taste in my mouth. Sorry. (I didn't thumbs down you)

 

My beliefs are a combination of what I have read and personal experence . I started working with creative visualization , but created some bad stuff along with some good stuff . Its taken me many years to get rid of a lot of repressed stuff . I have some methods , if they are what worked I will post them . Some of the more basic methods are kundlini yoga and the use of white light . This post is for some thing different , but it is working with white light .http://www.stevepavlina.com/forums/psychic-paranormal/68328-circulation-white-light.html I dont know why this would leave a bad taste in some ones mouth . I am not saying that the rape of a 4 year old is rite , but some thing has happned in one of her past lives to make this happen . desert rat

 

Decent summary of historical developments.

Although Paul's influence formally won out there is no reason to assume that christianity would not have survived into modern times, if not for paul, not withstanding the fact that it did survive into modern times. On the scale of reason, that particular conclusion is not supported. Or perhaps I didn't understand what you said.

This question, what would jesus say, is not informative in any fashion. There are arguments about what is said even though two people had read the self same words from the self same translation. It is from debates on general substance as well as on details that sectarianism finds it's hold as we become convinced of the differences.

A better question as far as finding the mind that is in christ, is, what would you say to jesus, knowing that he is equal to the least among us?

 

If there is any use to this perspective on things it must practical in this moment.
To have this moment some how tethered to some theoretical past life makes it useless information unless you had the experiential details to extrapolate from. The way this information is being presented makes it impotent in the hands of the everyday lay person and creates aversion to it's theoretical principles. It is a distortion of sound principles caused by those who are tempted to assign supernatural causes to the natural world because they give a dreamy escapist somnambulance. We are talking about sound esoteric principles being hijacked by new age merchandising.

 

Past life events do have an effect on this life . This is part of new age beliefs , and other belief systems . It would be hard to fully explane with in the context of this post . I have all ready pushed this thread well off track , I will haft to leave this as you are entitled to your belief system I am entitled to mine . desert rat

 

Actually it is consistent with the subject of the thread in that you are attributing, horrors, to some karmic past life functionary you call the law of attraction. If it is a matter of belief as you suggest, then your suggestion has no bearing on actual causes.