The Horrors of christianity

You are forgetting about Lot . When the cites of Soddem , and Gomera became so wikked , that God sent his angles to destory them . Lot took in the two angles in to his house . The men of the cites wanted to have sex with the angels , Lot said hear have my virgin daughters in stead , but they wanted the angles . The angles said dont worry Lot we will fix them . Lot and his daughters split before the angles did there thing , but his wife looked back to watch the angles doing there thing and was turned to a piller of salt . desert rat

 

And if it really bothers you, you can always start a thread about the horrors of any belief system you like. This one happens to be about christianity.

 

thedope:

There is no accounting for taste, but there is tasting. You say you are tired of it.

It takes all kinds --- do you prefer acceptance over preference? lol

The truth has never set us free. Our own truth however...is your own christianity enough to make up for others lack of it? Mine for instance? I have never, will never, fall to the platitude: - "everything in good time" I am far too patient to conceive an infinity of "patience".

No, the op is saying there is no god behind the hells that have been dreamed up.
The "avenues" he wanted to explore are a way of understanding this, no matter how misleading you, or I, may find them.

You however are saying there is a god. I don't care for your excuse, but do you have a reason?

 

We are all hear to make "loosh " any way . You haft of read the books by Robert Monroe for this to make scence . I will post more if asked . desert rat

 

Thought I should shorten that a bit. Nice to see that you actually can form coherent sentences and put forth an opinion instead of just talking shit.

Although, you still have failed to grasp what I was saying, even after I posted it a second time, with further explanation.

The following is taken from my notes on the subject.

Here is a smattering of what I was saying regarding how your god allows horrors to be done in it's name, and never did a thing to stop them:

Theodosius' code:

We command that those persons who follow this rule shall embrace the name of Catholic Christians. The rest, however, whom We adjudge demented and insane, shall sustain the infamy of heretical dogmas, their meeting places shall not receive the name of churches, and they shall be smitten first by divine vengeance and secondly by the retributions of Our own initiative, which We shall assume in accordance with the divine judgment. In regards to Pagans; (Pagans being mostly anyone who did not believe as the christians) We command that all their fanes, temples, and shrines, if even now any remain entire, shall be destroyed by the command of the magistrates, and shall be purified by the erection of the sign of the venerable Christian religion. There was further legislation, resulting in the death penalty for non-Christians in 435. Everyone had to belong to the official "Catholic" Christianity - the only other permitted religion was Judaism, and Jews were isolated as much as possible from the rest of the population. Between 429 and 439 about 150 different laws were passed defining and defending the "Catholic faith." Church lands became exempt from taxation and bishops became immune to any sort of secular oversight or punishment. ​

The Crusades:
In 1208, Pope Innocent III used an army of over 20,000 knights and peasants to kill and pillage their way through France. When the city of Beziers fell to the besieging armies of Christendom, soldiers asked papal legate Arnald Amalric how to tell the faithful apart from the infidels. He replied: "Kill them all. God will know His own."
Followers of Peter Waldo of Lyon, called Waldensians promoted the role of lay street preachers despite official policy that only ordained ministers be allowed to preach. They rejected oaths, war, relics, veneration of saints, indulgences, purgatory, and considerably more that was promoted by religious leaders. The church felt it needed to control the information the people heard, so they would not be corrupted by the temptation to think for themselves. They were declared heretics at the Council of Verona in 1184 and hounded and killed over the course of the following 500 years. In 1487, Pope Innocent VIII called for an armed crusade against populations of Waldensians in France.
The First Crusade was launched in 1095 with the slogan "Deus Vult" (God wills it), and had a mandate to destroy infidels in the Holy Land. Gathering crusaders in Germany they first went after "the infidel among us," Jews in the Rhine valley, thousands of whom were dragged from their homes or hiding places and hacked to death or burned alive. Then the religious legions plundered their way 2,000 miles to Jerusalem, where they killed virtually every inhabitant, "purifying" the symbolic city. Cleric Raymond of Aguilers wrote: "In the temple of Solomon, one rode in blood up to the knees and even to the horses' bridles, by the just and marvelous judgment of God."


Saint Bernard of Clairvaux declared in launching the Second Crusade: "The Christian glories in the death of a pagan, because thereby Christ himself is glorified."


In the Third Crusade, Richard the Lion-Hearted captured Acre in 1191, he ordered 3,000 captives including many women and children to be taken outside the city and slaughtered. Some were disemboweled in a search for swallowed gems. Bishops intoned blessings.




Hatred of Jews:
All through Europe, beginning in the 1100s, tales were spread that Jews were abducting Christian children, sacrificing them, and using their blood in rituals. Hundreds of massacres stemmed from this "blood libel." Some of the supposed sacrifice victims, Little Saint Hugh of Lincoln, the holy child of LaGuardia, Simon of Trent , were beatified or commemorated with shrines that became sites of pilgrimages and miracles.


The Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 proclaimed the doctrine of transubstantiation: that the host wafer supposedly turns into the body of Jesus during the mass. Rumors spread that Jews were stealing the sacred wafers and stabbing or driving nails through them to crucify Jesus again. Supposedly, the pierced host bled, cried out, or emitted spirits. On this charge, Jews were burned at the stake in 1243 in Belitz, Germany -- the first of many killings that continued into the 1800s. To avenge the tortured host, the German knight Rindfliesch led a brigade in 1298 that exterminated 146 defenseless Jewish communities in six months.


When the Plague hit Europe in 1348-1349, rumors stated that it was caused by Jews poisoning wells. Mobs slaughtered thousands of Jews in several countries. In Speyer, Germany, the burned bodies were piled into giant wine casks and sent down the Rhine. In northern Germany Jews were walled up alive in their homes to suffocate or starve. The Flagellants, a sick lot of penitents who whipped themselves bloody, stormed the Jewish quarter of Frankfurt and massacred the inhabitants. The prince of Thuringia stated that he had burned his Jews for the honor of God.


In 1723 the bishop of Gdansk, Poland, demanded that all Jews be expelled from the city. The town council disagreed, but the bishop's exhortations roused a mob that invaded the ghetto and beat the residents to death.


In 1801 Orthodox priests in Bucharest, Romania, revived the story that Jews sacrificed Christians and drank their blood. Enraged parishioners stormed the ghetto and cut the throats of 128 Jews.


In the late 19th century, with rebellion stirring, the czars in Russia tried to divert attention by helping anti-Semitic groups goad Orthodox Christian hatred for Jews. Three waves of pogroms ensued, in the 1880s, from 1903 to 1906, and during the Russian Revolution. Each wave was increasingly worse. During the final pogrom, 530 communities were attacked and 60,000 Jews were killed.


The Inquisition:
During the 1200s, the hunt for Albigensian heretics led to the establishment of the Inquisition, which spread over Europe. The Holy Inquisition was formed to make the efforts more organized and efficient. Pope Gregory IX established the Inquisition in 1231, and burning was quickly decided upon as the official punishment. Administrators and Inquisitors all answered directly to the Pope, which essentially made him directly responsible for their actions. In 1245, the Pope gave Inquisitors the right to absolve their assistants of any acts of violence they might commit while fulfilling their duties. Pope Innocent IV authorized torture. During interrogation by Dominican priests, screaming victims were stretched, burned, pierced and broken on machines to force them to confess to disbelief and to identify fellow transgressors. Inquisitor Robert le Bourge sent 183 people to the stake in a single week.


Conrad of Marburg burned every suspect who was brought before him and had the audacity to claim innocence. Bernard Fui convicted 930 people, confiscating all of their property for himself. Inquisitors like him grew rich from their jobs with little or no oversight. Even the dead could be accused of heresy, allowing Inquisitors to confiscate property from their heirs.


In Spain, where many Jews and Moors had converted to escape persecution, inquisitors hunted those who still practiced their old faith. At least 2,000 of them were burned. In other countries supposed heretics were burned, including scientists such as Giordano Bruno, who pushed Copernicus's theory that the planets orbit the sun.


In the 1400s, the Inquisition focused on witchcraft. Priests tortured thousands of women into confessing that they were witches who flew, engaged in sex with the devil, and performed other impossible acts, they were then burned or hanged after confessing. Witch hysteria went on for three centuries in a dozen nations. The number of people executed vary from 100,000 to 2 million. Whole villages were exterminated. In the first half of the 17th century, about 5,000 supposed witches were put to death in the province of Alsace, in France, and 900 were burned in the Bavarian city of Bamberg.


"Protestant Inquisition" is a term applied to the acts of John Calvin in Geneva and Queen Elizabeth I in England during the 1500s. Calvin's followers burned 58 "heretics," including theologian Michael Servetus, who doubted the Trinity. Elizabeth I outlawed Catholicism and executed 200 Catholics.


Spaniards brought the Inquisition to the Americas. Through the 1500s, 879 heresy trials were recorded in just Mexico. Church leaders supported the suppression, enslavement and murder of native inhabitants, a 1493 papal Bull justified declaring war on all non-Christian natives in the Americas. Jurist Encisco wrote in 1509:

“The king has every right to send his men to the Indies to demand their territory from these idolaters because he had received it from the pope. If the Indians refuse, he may quite legally fight them, kill them and enslave them, just as Joshua enlsaved the inhabitants of the country of Canaan. “​

In keeping with church traditions, Inquisitor Franciso Pena declared in 1578 that “We must remember that the main purpose of the trial and execution is not to save the soul of the accused but to achieve the public good and put fear into others.”
Torture was not removed as a legal option for church officials until 1917 when the Codex Juris Canonici was put into effect.

Trying not to put too much on here at once, that is some of it. I have more if you like. Since you are still having trouble grasping what I was asking, here it is again:
How can you god, if it was real, allow this sort of thing?
If it was real, couldn't it have found a better way for it's followers to learn how to do what it expected of it?
Since there has been no contact between the human race and this supposed god since the time of Moses, and atrocities of the sort listed above still continue, it is logical to assume it does not exist, correct?
Since it is so apparent it does not exist, then it is logical to assume that all you christstains act on your own behalf, using this religion as a form of authority for your acts, correct?

Please directly answer the questions this time, instead of mucking up the issue with your babbling.
Thank you.

 

Still Kicking:

Amounts to the same thing. Christians say be with us or go to hell forever. Jews say, go to hell a while until you learn better and be with us. Almost as refreshing as muslims saying be with us or die! lol

 

This is a good partial summation of where I was going, I think. The other part is, if this same entity did actually exist, why would anyone want to follow it, creator or not, when it not allows, but in many instances demands, that its creations commit horrific acts against one another?

 

Precisely so. So why do imagine such a being or belief in such a being? Why do you seek to apply your vain imagining to the faith of others? If you do not believe you are no measure of true belief no matter you may think you had
investigated 4 years with sound reasoning.

 

Pretty much, yes, just a gentler version of the events to supposedly happen than the carrot and stick routine the christains put forth. The Jews say that Purgatory is not a place of punishment, it is a place to learn, to correct errors they made during life. They do, of course believe that everyone goes to their version of a heaven, much as all the other religions that believe in that sort of thing do.

I have to say, I almost converted to Judaism after my experiences with them, but just could not rationalize the existence of any god, after all my studying. Mostly pretty great folks, and they love to talk.

The muslims now, that is a whole 'nuther interesting issue.

 

"Amen"

I thought a more "ahem" controversial approach was appropriate, in this case considering the subject matter. Always liked the direct approach myself, we are, after all, not children, even though we act like them once in a while.

I sure do like your calm manner, thanks for a thoughtful look at what I stated here.
:2thumbsup:

 

This thread isn't even fun to read any more.. come on guys


I'll actually contribute now..

Right, I'll have to say I'm with thedope and Noxious on this one.. they both make perfect sense. Yeah, they've both jabbed you a few times, but lol.. the shit's been laid out bare for you, you were just too busy defending yourself to notice.

What I've gathered from your posts is that you're trying to define God as a single unit of logical and digestible information.. and it doesn't work like that.
Because that hasn't worked out for you, you gave up and put up a wall.. the cement of which was 4 years of failed religious studies. You've convinced yourself there's nothing out there, which is right.. but don't stop there.

Basically, you haven't found proof of God because you've looked too hard in the wrong places. God isn't a deity, even though it can be.. but it's a lot more subtle than that. Look up Tao, try and understand it as best you can.. then forget it, go outside and just listen and watch. Do the same in a pub, in a football stadium, in a church, in a mosque, in a prison, in a playground, on a bus, and on the shit house. In that order. kidding.

If that doesn't work.. study some other religions, and pick out similarities between them all like what the messages are trying to convey at a very basic level. Then think of the rules as guidelines, not meant to limit and restrict, but to help and encourage..

Don't get stuck in the paradigm that the majority of people have been in for the past fuckload of years.. religion has been tainted by ignorance, naivety and ego.. but that isn't religions fault.


I know this has hopped back a few steps, and isn't really replying to the original topic, but it's at its core, so humour it.

 

Haha, chill man.. obviously you didn't read the last line of my post.

Right..

What lied?

God lied?

What is God? (re-read my post, or carry on regardless)


Every fucking person on this planet is God. This religion crap is people following themselves, without even knowing it.
The character of "God"(note the quotation marks) was dreamt up by a human, with human preferences of what a Utopian figurehead should be like.

The Bible is a book.. bits of paper with words on it that make up a long story.. think of it as a fable. People can take it as seriously as they want.. Just cos Aesop said that a rabbit and a tortoise had a race doesn't mean that they actually did.. but it doesn't mean there isn't a moral behind the story either.
If you think The Bible lied, it's your fault you took it so seriously. You assumed it was presented in a fraudulent manner because you're gullible and don't want to admit that to yourself, so you blame it on the book and label it evil.


Now, before you respond.. chill. Don't get stuck and nitpick on my choice of words.. pick up on the general meaning behind them and let's actually make this debate flow nicely, as opposed to getting into a little tiff about who's saying what about who and how this is all irrelevant. Chances are, if 3 people have come up with something along the same lines.. it might actually be relevant.
Edit: Don't respond to this last paragraph either, cos that is irrelevant..

 

Mother Teresa and Thomas Merton: Just two contemporary examples of Christians that made the world a much better place for all.

Lumping religious people together is a mistake.

Some will be true. Some will be false.

The rest is gossip. Big time.

QP

 

I am just wondering, why limit the horrors to christianity. Is God only supposed to take action when it's the followers of a particular religion doing nasty stuff? What about the other people, are they created in someone elses image?

 

You have a very valid point. All this general speaking of christianity as a whole will always be disagreed and nitpicked about because christianity is not as uniform as agitating atheists like to put (yes, not all atheists. after all don't want to upset the OP with a generalization about his (non)religious affiliation right). Things also change a lot over the years. Why project the actions of people 600 years ago on the people now? Has nothing changed?

 

Yeah, you're right. The good acts of two people surely mitigate all the horrors perpetrated by the christain church over the centuries. What was I thinking?

 

No reason to limit them to christianity, all the religions based on supernatural entities have the same sort of history. It is just that the topic of this thread related to christianity.

Since there is no valid evidence relating to the existence of your god, the rest of what you said here really does not relate to the thread. Possibly under another topic, which would be an interesting one, but not what I had intended here.

 

You weren't.

Still aren't.

Try this one.. cars have caused so much death, tragedy and global pollution. They're absolutely terrible, they're destruction on wheels.
On the other hand, lives have been saved.. ambulances, squad cars, fire engines, families running family members to A+E/ER and vehicles delivering food and medical supplies to distant villages etc.

It's the driver that matters, not the car.