The Horrors of christianity

thedope:

Must I? My only condition for loves appearance is life. Love is not in the act of life? Which act specifically? Tell me, where did you find love in the massacre?

I know, but you neglected to say which thought you have in mind. If you catch up with the elusive love you insist is in the massacre, will you let me know?

When? In time? Which time? Whose?

Or not transient enough? Have you conceived that they do so through sheer circumstance? That we haven't altogether grasped our circumstances as our very own? That we could hold matter to ourselves definitely/indefinitely? In love.

But you're saying it could? Or just my own?! lol

Too honest for you?

Poetically... untrue. Does life reflect yours faithfully too or is your consciousness too clear to even register a reflection? :-D

It does, but that hasn't stopped it yet. Life is not murder.

That's rich! I wasn't aware there was one before you said it was abominable, or is that all warp and woof on your part?

Sponsored! LOL Your inviting love to the slaughter is...misleading.

Don't do it in. You might think you need it.

 

Our tolerance for suffering is great and until we are certain we have had enough, some would fight you tooth and nail to keep it. I don't know what influences have brought you to your station, but some would give their shirt off their backs in the broiling sun, rather than give up their complaints. I know one in particular who will insist on tragedy when all he need do is love. As though insisting on tragedy and assigning blame for it will make it go away.

I don't know how or where you think I turned other than to say new.
New in the sense of fundamentally different. By different I mean in the way the world is apprehended. You asked me why not give up good and bad altogether. Well that is the new methodology. First off our relativistic judgments bind the mind and constrict vision to search for compliance. To free the mind then we use the practice of forgiveness which at the outset appears a kind of falsification of bills.

Well, because we had missed so many real things in our vigilance for compliance, we can be sure that if we neglect to express the proper horror at the sight or thought of a massacre, it will not upset any foundation of life.
We seem to be able to bumble along ignorantly as it is regardless our individual contributions.

Forgiveness is not forgiving acts, it is refusing to editorialize as to the arbitrary presence of good or bad. What comes to mind when practice becomes a fundamental shift in perception?

You begin to see phenomena instead of good and evil. Phenomena then can be accurately measured as they are and as they relate to each other. You can focus your mind as an instrument of clear headed apprehension because you are not distracted by the heavily passionate responses to perceptions of good and bad.

As I have said many time we share the endemic motive that we must have our good.
However,
good and evil are an adopted paradigm, not a native proclivity. It is taught to us and is an extension of varying exchange rates, money economy, In christian vernacular, mammon. We are taught to compete and are rewarded arbitrarily for success or failure and depend on others to be our measure in life. The pledge of allegiance, courts, police forces, armies, and moralizing busy body neighbors. Tradition keeps us from accessing directly our mechanism for apprehending the world.

Our creaturhood is inherently astute to life if it is not co-opted by the mind splitting conception of good and evil.

To walk a straight line in a whirling universe takes attention. The way is easy and broad that leads to destruction, so to speak. My meditation is beyond symbols. Unconditional regard for life, becomes unconditional positive regard,
when you have seen correct proportions for the first time.

You get the jokes but you mistake some things as seriously array.

Big fish eats little fish. Metabolism is a sacrificial fire. You are not your body although we invest ourselves wholly in it. Little fish is not wasted.

How are the murderer and the tree different? How is death by tree and death by murder, a different state of death?

 

You do in other words. Otherwise you would never be unable to find love.
I simply think you do not look for love for the purpose of upholding horror. I find that I am love in my capacity to appreciate life. Massacres are circumstantial to life. Circumstances change and do not define fundamentals, they reflect mental fecundity.

We share our thoughts.

Their own time. You did not create yourself although you are yourself creative. the measure of your inheritance, you are not free to determine but you can become familiar with it. Your creations you share with all creation.

What body does not die?

If you cling, it escapes you.

It's called dreaming.

No, the question doesn't regard honesty but whether or not you, were at this point, grumpy.

Poetically true and true in freaking morse code. All exchanges of energy are equal to your regard. The world appears to you as it does because you have grown neurological dendrites that transduct stimulating energies into a hopefully coherent picture.

Then where the murderer?

As to warp and woof, there is some of that.
I make specific references sometimes so that christian thinkers may see these statements from the esoteric perspective, sometimes for the first time ever. Some many have told me that they had found new appreciation from considering these perspectives. I could speak perhaps in a thoroughly secular vernacular to make the same points but for habitual use of some axioms in handling esoteric concepts at large.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

The abomination is the split mind that develops and the total unsuitability of a coat with holes in it for shedding the weather.

Theoretical proposition, "love is life."
Theoretical proposition, 'life is love."
Observed weather condition, "there is no love in" that view of life.

Evidently there is something in your process that does not allow you to behold your own declared truthful proposition. This I call a barrier erected to the perception of love.

The abominable fabric of opposing purpose, is yours.

I don't know sometimes if you radically exaggerate my statements as comic relief, or if you really don't comprehend what I am saying.

 

Metanoia, greek for the fundamental transformation of the mind. It is the way concepts are organized.

Unless you become as little children you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

The thing that makes heaven accessible only to those like children is that their minds are wholly/holy trusting, open to instruction and convinced of instructions authority. We learn or accept into our model of the world that which our authority figures give example to.

Metanoia in esoteric practice is an intensified adult version of the childlike apprehension, (open mindedness), of the world. Forgiving not seven times, but seventy times seven, starves dendrites of habitual impulse.

No description, no condition, no conditioned response.

 

You seem to believe that if someone calls them self a "Billionaire" that they have to be a "Billionaire", which quite simply is a bit naive.

To be a Christian a person has to do what Jesus Christ asked his disciples to do. Christians are authorized to preach the good news of God's kingdom and only those that are doing so are Christians.

If there are people involved in things like the Inquisition, numerous pogroms against the Jews throughout history and infighting among the numerous sects within what is called christianity, none of which Jesus authorized his disciples to do, even if they call themselves Christian, they are just not Christian.

 

The point being then, that the christian god allows these things to happen in its name, does not care, or does not exist. I think I went into a little more depth back a few posts.

 

thedope:

I am my body. You are yours too though you wish to escape it. That you think metabolism is in any way sacrificial is sick.

No different states of death. The tree does not intend death. The murderer does. Perhaps you think that because death can't be 'realized' there is no will to death?
You would like to be free of disease through the thought there is none? Mental.

Then you are a simpleton. Why look for love in the massacre? You still haven't told me where you found it there.

This is your problem with thinking the 'thought comes first', its preceding everything. You've never been able to articulate how you think it precedes itself.

Afraid to put them to words in case I "rob" you of them? The words that is. Again, where is love in the massacre?

Our not having created ourselves doesn't mean that we do not now do so.

That the body can die does not mean it has to. Do you want proof of this before we prove it? What for? So you can tell your friends the good news? lol

Holding is clinging? Are you a lover or not?

One wakes up.

I wasn't, but I was rude though in suggesting I am funnier than you because you happen to be graver than I. I like to say the best things, but I don't love to unless everyone else does too. ;-D

Hopefully?! lol Classic. I guess we'll all just...know... when to go out cloudbusting together.

There is no murderer of life itself. You appear to know how to forgive from the heart.

I don't know when you ever thought I was a christian thinker, but you'd best stop it before you go blind. :-D

I perceive others as myself, not others - I perceive others as others, not myself.
That is not a barrier, even of language. I suspect you think it is. lol

No. It is yours. I said that the massacre is not loves being or doing.

Show me otherwise. Your asking me to show myself in so many words is an obfuscation of your purpose in doing so, you dissembling dendrite.

It was a joke. Back for the rest, rest for the back...forget it. lol

No condition is no existence. I guess you think it's 'safer' that way? lol

 

The holey trinity of ignorance


"Christian thinkers", that's a good one! :-D

 

You don't think that your frame will be consumed by the demands of life? Hunger is never satisfied, that is it's purpose. Get a grip. We are motored by internal combustion. What is burnt in the internal furnace of metabolism, living things. You agree to consume living things and are in turn consumed by living things.

Sacrificial is sick is a habitual response, not one considered in the moment of my statement, metabolism is a sacrificial fire. I chose a figure of speech specifically to latch onto the dendritic connection in your mind, to demonstrate a predictable response. It is not demonstration of, sick thinking. It is a demonstration of conditioned response.

You mistake my apprehension of a larger world for, wanting to escape my body.

Here is where the fabric of reality is rent for you. Reality is not in opposition to itself. There is no opposing will. The murderers intent is not murder. The murderers intent is that he must have his good . Just so happens in his model of good for himself at that moment involved killing or the attempt to kill.

Where your treasure lies, there is your heart also.

You depreciate the power of your mind, not mine. Life has yet to tell me where my fine free life will take me, I don't want to escape anything. First, do no harm.

Simplify, simplify, simplify. Multiplication is simply quick addition.
I love, I don't look for love. Love is what we are in every striving.

How do you, precede yourself? You did not create your own parents. Your genes, coded information, choreographed the development of your body. You see only the past. I am created and from creation I create as I was created. This moments sensation is modeled on the previous moments apprehension. Inhale, exhale, observe the sensation that follows.

And you do it first and foremost via conception. You think first the bodies direction of travel but you do not consciously guide the individual muscle fibers that must contract or relax in unison or sequentially to perform some delicate task. The body is tuned to respond to your suggestions.

I hope you have a long life if long life is your goal. All expressions of love are maximal.

Hold matter to yourself was your statement. Non consensual holding could be construed as attempted rape.

And two relate.

I don't only speak to you. I have noticed however that you are familiar enough with sayings to feel you know the heart of them.

You just dissociate yourself perceptually using your body as evidence for doing so. Mind is communicative at large. Body is representative of self interest, only.

You also said that love is life and life love, and I asked how the circumstance you see is not life.

I understood the joke.

Pull up your boots because no, not safer, extremely dynamic. You already exist regardless your conditional requirements, food, shelter, security, for the moment. Every other condition you experience in addendum to the fulfillment of those existential requirements is fabricated sensationally from the effects of language and the power of the mind to create vision.
The sense and the articulate exactness, to make sense of things.

 

Where is the world larger than it is? We are our bodies and our love of them. This makes us them, and more than them, not less. You should stop trying to latch onto my mind you timorous tendril of 'god'!

"You are not your body" Bullshit. But you could always try to find and tell it to someone who cares! There's always hope thedope!

LOL Just so happens, just so, like so? You know the murderers model of good?! Are you sure it wasn't the involvement of his model but rather his own struggle to find or create it? Is there really any more conversation to be had with you? My ideas find no further ground with your convictions. You don't answer my questions and you bring everything back to its good or god which "just so happens" to be 'everything'.

A doctrine for cowards? lol How about first, love? In your book where your christ-teaching comes from, they say, or someone said: Fear of the lord is the beginning of wisdom. Was the person who said that a tyrant? A murderer perhaps?!

In every striving? No we are only life in every striving. I must have confused you with my talk of shared condition? Sorry! Good luck in loving the massacre!

I see only the past? You've said that to me before. Is that why I'm seeing it again? lol

Thankyou! I hope you have a pleasant... uh... "disembodiment", if that is yours!

Was it god who tuned it? Was he trying to suggest we couldn't do it ourselves?

No, it was hold matter to ourselves definitely/indefinitely, in love.

I construe you as lacklustre. But it's alright. You don't need to be construed. :-D Just make sure you give yourself your consent before you hold onto yourself in case you think you're raping yourself, alright?

I suppose it's in your self-interest to say that, but I don't see how. If the body is "tuned" as you say to respond to our suggestion, are you suggesting it is not in itself suggestive?! lol Do you know how mind, as you say, is "communicative at large"?! ( because you don't make it sound as though you do lol ) Self-interest, only.

Only in sharing eachothers condition. I said I don't hold them to oneanother. I don't need to! Quit yer yammering for a bit and start writing out invitations. Circumstance isn't going to celebrate itself.

Ah, so you were only joking when you said sometimes you don't know if I comprehend what you're saying. I often think to myself we're saying nothing short of the same thing. Then I remember who I am. Dejavu! lol

All condition. You haven't made sense of it. No-one has. Sounds like you're scared to from where I am. :-D

 

There are many evil things happening in the world, some use God's name some don't.

So are we to blame God for the evil that mankind brings upon itself and blame on God or should we blame those who bring the evil in the first place?

 

Since christians believe that their god created all things, then yes, we blame it for the evil that is done in its name.
As I have stated here before, this god either exists, and doesn't care what is done in its name, it exists and actually demands these types of things be done, as evidenced by its direction to its early adherents as found in the so called old testament, or it does not exist and all these things are done fraudulently by dishonest people in the name of a fraudulent religion.

 

If you are genuinely interested in the subject matter and would like a scholarly approach to Christianity and the Bible may I suggest you read some material or watch lessons by the late Dr. Gene Scott.
You were open to teaching from a rabbi, why not a Christian scholar with multiple degrees in the field and related studies.

I know for some of you he's was a crackpot. Yes he was a bit eccentric BUT when it came to Biblical history, languages, teachings, church history, doctrine, prophecy, etc.etc. he was/is considered one of the top scholars of the last century.

Even his most ardent enemies said that when it came to Biblical teaching, he could not be faulted or surpassed.
Most didn't like him because he smoked cigars, cussed and drank whiskey on live TV.
That's my kind o' Christian. :2thumbsup:

But if you want one of the most in depth studies of all things related to Christianity, he is one of the best sources. Granted his works spans about 45 years or more, so it may take some time.
A good place to start for you may be his lessons on the resurrection.
Then you will see how a intelligent person with a PHD in History studies/dissects Biblical accounts.

Actually he said he was pretty much where you are regarding believing the Bible.
So he approached it in the same manner that he would any ancient historical document to determine it's veracity.
end of the story is after applying all the controls and tests to determine the veracity of the story, he became a Christian.

So if a guy with degrees and special training in specifically researching ancient historical accounts/documents comes away from his study a convert, kinda puts your meager attempts in a different light..

 

I left my body in my bed and some went down the drain. If you don't care why do you object? There are dis-incorporated pieces of me all over the world and I am well rounded as a result, not less. As dramatically as my body has changed, the observer within remains absolutely unmoved by anything that has ever transpired except I have become better at communication. This follows as we in fact learn to use our communication device.

I was strong before my muscles developed, and eager before my brain developed. The community that is my body is totally inert of it's own desire.
It performs as directed, it's director is coded information in the form of genes, and as the light comes, there is additional orchestration, coded information in the form of language.

If my body should break before I die well, slap in a new heart and away I fly.
The body is a biological machine, a communication device.

When you say that we are our bodies and also more than our bodies, values tumble into disarray. There is no more than being.

CORE-MEANING: a conjunction indicating the reason for an action or situation, or its result.

Yes, our motives are the same. The model is always, my good, no matter how indistinct the specific contemplated form, may be. The thought comes before the action in the ray of creation. Many times this happens in such quick succession that you think the thought and the action are simultaneous, but they are not. Even in the case of biological reflex, the response to stimulus has been, prerecorded.

I don't know Dejavu, do you care to give up the cultivation of suffering in the fabric of our mind? Think what it is you are trying to convince me of. That love should be withheld because some things are not lovely?

The current of life circulates through us. To shy away or recoil in horror is the psyches equivalent to shutting down the flow of the blessings of life. The only time we may know/apply/appreciate the blessing of life is in this instant of now. If love is the answer then withholding love, discriminating against it's application in any situation is self defeating. All expressions in the now, are maximal. This is as good as it gets in any moment.

Your discriminating sense is an arbitrary metric that totally misses the vital nature of your contribution in every instant. We share our thoughts. Even though they may not be articulated with the voice in words they are articulated through our motions and even the set of our jaw or the furrow of our brow.

We have a field effect. The more consistent the resolution the larger and more persevering the field. From a persevering field, life emerges diversely and I repeat the saying, great men do not so much great things, as great things happen around them. If you are alert to the diversely emerging world then you begin to see that your effects are immediate.

A doctrine at the moment, of the mealy mouthed.

First things first.
The harm we do is to comprehension through an effort to assign worthiness.

Love cannot be taught.
Why worry about the speck in your brothers eye, first remove the log from your own.

To first do no harm is to learn the meaning of forgiveness. As it is we know not what we do because we have not seen one real thing without distortion.

What does it benefit us to only love those that love us? The measure we give is the measure we receive, full measure pressed down to overflowing in this moment of now.

As far as who said what, I didn't meet them. As far as what they said, I am far more generous with the mind than you and that makes things more accessible to my apprehension. We find those most agreeable, whom we agree with.

We are spirit, breath, reaching toward spirit in all things.
I don't rejoice in massacre if that is what you mean. You see a play of light and shadow on the surface of the ocean, but you do not see the ocean. You see the picture frame, and see not at all the picture.

It is a guilt frame covered in what you think is valuable and what is not. Sometimes it is bedecked in jewels and sometimes it is dripping with blood.
Your moral frame of reference is a dendrite composition, learned, through which you are filtering your view of the world and you have no access to the vertical/horizontal control knob. Your perceptions are shunted in to habitual frames of reference.

You talk about waking up. The sleep is deep, hypnotic, and to the point that you can't pinch yourself to wake up. We need alarm clocks. I say clocks because you are likely to learn to sleep through the familiar disturbance of the same alarm all the time. You get used to catastrophe when catastrophe is the norm.

Dejavu Dejavu.

It is a gift to you. Your autonomous nervous system is for you, but you must learn to master it.

Right. If you cling, it escapes you. Attachment is possessive and to be possessed is to be controlled. Love is not held by accounting for things.

The body can be destroyed but the march of the mind cannot.

heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words will endure forever,

Let there be light

The birds of the air already make their nests in the shade of my branches and the sun finds the quality of my day to be glorious.

No, I wasn't joking.

Sometime you might see it is more the same than you had previously imagined,
remember, Dejavu?

Don't misquote me and then perhaps you can make more sense of what I have said.

That was a gilt frame, freudian slip

 

You can blame anyone you want but that doesn't make them guilty. If I commit a crime in your name, does that make you guilty? Even if you didn't authorize it?

Why limit it to these paltry few there are an almost infinite number of possibilities? Interestingly, you left out the one that is actually the case but that doesn't surprise me.

 

thedope:

Ok, allow me then to be more aligned in my tumbling. We are body and nothing besides. Mind? Body. Love? Body. Self? Body. We are no machine. I don't care not to be my body. I don't really object to your saying I am not my body, since I am, but if you speak for yourself in the matter, we can help embody for you what it is you really mean by saying it. :-D

:-D But what is the core meaning of core-meaning? core-core-meaning?

What about the case of biological breakdown? Brain damage for instance? A things good is never its end, but its continuance however construed. There is no 'good' outside of its conception. There is no pre-recorded reflex.

That's what you imagine I'm trying to convince you of! I am saying there is no witholding love. The barriers you say are erected against its perception are imaginary. You say love is without condition, yet it has its condition anyway. lol "Core" meaning? You are not unloving, but are you as loving as I? :-D In your own way, no doubt!

God is one such discrimination against loves application. :-D I forgive you for it. Another is the discrimination that love is indiscriminate, undiscriminating. Also forgiven. The idea you have that to be horrified is unloving, is unloving, but not needfully so. Love is never withheld, even in its denial! Life is funny that way! :-D

Muddle-headed. My discriminating sense is itself the vital nature of my contribution in the instant. And as your body understands, but your mind, the crown of your bodys freedom, denies, all thought is embodied.

Yes, but where do we cease to see everythings immediacy? :-D I love everyone, not everything, though you seem to find me deficient for it. Well, that can't be helped! lol

Don't mince words, and forget trying to assassinate the assignation of worth. "First things first?" You said first do no harm! LOL A christian tenet for the fearful. Love knows life to the last. :-D

I wouldn't know. I am no less loving for loving unrequited. A question though, who do you think it is that you love who doesn't love you?

With the mind? Is that how you think to make up for my being more generous overall?! lol I'm sorry you find me less agreeable than you'd like me to be. Genuinely. Who doesn't feel it good to agree after all? It's been funny talking to you! :-D

LOL You mean a gilt frame, illiterate wight. Do things all but glitter in the souls dark night? Does time drip? Does it fly? Is it just us in our wandering 'why'? No access, you say, but a coma of clay. Shut out from depth by the surface we lay. But when has catastrophe e'er been the norm? You, christian, are fearful, of ne'er-ending form!

Who gave it?

lol Who are you to say?! May love not account for itself, in things? Is love disattachment? Is love...dispossessed?! :-D Clinging is not holding.

A bit dim? ;-D Let there be conversation! lol

Yeah, you told me about the birds digging their dens in your dendrites, didn't know the sun was getting off on you too. :-D

Blergasch. I never previously imagine anything! :-D I myself, am no dejavu.

Wasn't trying to quote you, your grace. All existence is condition. Everything is inherent. Your monkeys might have more luck with a buddhist! :-D

 

No, but then I did not create a book that was supposedly "the law" for mankind and expect everyone to live according to it either. That is the difference.

Were you just planning on arguing with me, or were you going to provide some evidence to support your conclusions that I am wrong about what I stated? I believe I posted quite a few things, you can start with refuting those, if you want. Please provide more than just your opinions, though, so I can verify what you say.
Thanks

 

Funny thing is, you said you were an agnostic.

 

Yes I did. Is there anything I posted here that makes you think otherwise?

 

Christian religions teach that with god, ALL things are possible. Not just things that are logical or which are possible scientifically. Therefore any criticism of xian faith is automatically invalid anyway. It makes me kind of hate even that imaginary jeebus... imagining him causes brain damage.