The Electric Car

Electric cars, especially Hi-brids like the 30mpg Prius are bullshit, now they are proved to be dirty too.

Norwegian University of Science and Technology Study.

Electric cars might pollute much more than petrol or diesel-powered cars, according to new research.

The Norwegian University of Science and Technology study found greenhouse gas emissions rose dramatically if coal was used to produce the electricity.

Electric car factories also emitted more toxic waste than conventional car factories, their report in the Journal of Industrial Ecology said.

However, in some cases electric cars still made sense, the researchers said.

Big impact
The team looked at the life-cycle impact of conventional and electric vehicles.

In essence, they considered how the production, the use and the end-of-life dismantling of a car affects the environment, explained co-author Prof Anders Hammer Stromman.

"The production phase of electric vehicles proved substantially more environmentally intensive," the report said, comparing it to how petrol and diesel cars are made.

"The global warming potential from electric vehicle production is about twice that of conventional vehicles."

In addition, producing batteries and electric motors requires a lot of toxic minerals such as nickel, copper and aluminium.

Hence, the acidification impact is much greater than that of conventional car production.

"Across the other impacts considered in the analysis including potential for effects related to acid rain, airborne particulate matter, smog, human toxicity, ecosystem toxicity and depletion of fossil fuel and mineral resources, electric vehicles consistently perform worse or on par with modern internal combustion engine vehicles, despite virtually zero direct emissions during operation," according to Prof Stromman.

'Counterproductive' efforts
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A battery electric vehicle, with electricity produced by the power generation mix we currently have in Europe, compares favourably in the magnitude of 10% or so with diesel”

Dieter Zetsche
Chief executive, Daimler
With electric car production being so damaging to the environment, these cars have already polluted a great deal by the time they hit the road, the report says.

However, if the cars were then powered by electricity made from low-carbon electricity sources, they could nevertheless offer "the potential for substantial reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and exposure to tailpipe emissions" over time.

However, in regions where fossil fuels are the main sources of power, electric cars offer no benefits and may even cause more harm, the report said.

"It is counterproductive to promote electric vehicles in regions where electricity is primarily produced from lignite, coal or even heavy oil combustion."

European benefits
In Europe, where electricity is produced in a number of different ways, electric cars do offer environmental benefits when compared with cars with internal combustion engines, according to the study.

"Electric vehicles powered by the present European electricity mix offer a 10% to 24% decrease in their global warming potential relative to conventional diesel or petrol vehicles."

This is in line with calculations made by some carmakers.


Cars powered by electricity produced in coal power stations pollute more than petrol or diesel cars
"According to our results, a battery electric vehicle, with electricity produced by the power generation mix we currently have in Europe, compares favourably in the magnitude of 10% or so with diesel," Daimler's chief executive Dieter Zetsche told the BBC.

Longer lives
The report pointed out that the longer an electric car in Europe stays mobile, the greater its "lead" over petrol and diesel engines.

"Assuming a vehicle lifetime of 200,000km exaggerates the global warming benefits of electric vehicles to 27-29% relative to petrol and 17-20% relative to diesel," it said.

"An assumption of 100,000km decreases the benefit of electric vehicles to 9-14% with respect to petrol vehicles and results in impacts indistinguishable from those of a diesel vehicle."

An electric car's longevity depends a great deal on how long its battery lasts, not least since it is very expensive to replace them.

Batteries are gradually getting better, which could result in electric cars being used for longer.

However, as petrol and diesel engines are also improving, the relationships between the different types of vehicles are not constant.

"A more significant reduction in global warming could potentially be achieved by increasing fuel efficiency or shifting from petrol to diesel," the report said.

"If you are considering purchasing an electric vehicle for its environmental benefits, first check your electricity source and second look closely at the warranty on the batteries," said Professor Stromman.

Those in power, meanwhile, should recognise "the many potential advantages of electric vehicles [which] should serve as a motivation for cleaning up regional electricity mixes".

 

You're not "saving" energy, but, you sort of are...

First of all, I don't THINK that electric motors suffer nearly as much as internal comubstion engines from the loss of efficiency as they operate at lower than their potential.

That is, you can have an electric car with a HUGE amount of muscle, and if you don't drive hard, you will get the SAME milage as someone with a very wimpy electric car. You don't lose milage based on engine potential, just on how you drive it. As we know very well, a gasoline engine that has some fun get-up-and-go will pay dearly for it in lost milage, even when it's being driven gently.

Second, it makes much more sense to have cars that can take ANY sort of energy, so long as it's stored in an intermediary form. Having a gasoline engine pretty well locks you in to using gasoline or a conversion like propane. But having an electric car means you can use gasoline power (you can even have a gasoline generator under the hood, which will be more efficient than a gas motor designed to be able to accelerate and such, as well as cruise. The volt has this, for example, I believe), you can use coal power, or natural gas power, or nuclear power, or wind power, or solar power, or hydroelectric power, or pedal power, if you have a lot of spare time and determination. You can use anything, it lets you divorce the actual driving from the power generation, which, after a switch to electric vehicles, makes switching the actual means of power generation around, MUCH MUCH easier -- all you have to do is replace ONE power facility, not the power facility under EVERY HOOD on the road.

 

I have an idea for a form of alternative transportation that can be made cheaply and easily from recycled and off-the-shelf parts. Mind you this is only a prototype, but you can imagine what could be done on a large scale.


Rubber-band power! zero emissions, no toxic batteries to dispose of...

This could be the dawn of a new era in personal transportation. :mickey:

 

It is a good and save's petrol.

 

Electric cars are great and will greatly reduce emissions.However they still need to be charged from an energy source and if that is coal we will still be producing high carbon emissions...It is debatable whether nuclear power is the way to go...Personally I think renewable is the way to go...If we invested enough money and research into solar, wind and hydro I believe we could have an endless supply of cheap and safe energy technology...Problem is the energy industry would potentially lose billions and that is why this technology is not coming online...We could have massive arrays of photo-voltaic cells (Solar power) in otherwise unused deserts across the world...I believe the scientific possibilities of this research are endless.It is criminal the way green political parties are sidelined and marginalized.

 

Yes, i agree with you, because we are living in a place where greed is everything, its almost impossible to advance in renewable energies, so if i choose to be a realist, i make the choice of lesser evil. Also, the greedies are crawling into the green energy business, by producing cheap, harmful energy and harmful cars, then selling them as "green" cars. Almost everyone are out to exploit. Also the political situation is fucked up. Imagine, if we could fill the entire deserts of africa with solar panels. But thats impossible due to the civil wars and political instability in those countries.

 

I don't think how electric cars are effective to use. One limitation is the range, which would make it impossible to take an electric car on a long vacation, or road trip. Charging the battery is also a problem for people that live in an apartment or park on the street. The car needs plugged in at night and if you do not have an area to plug it in at then it will either simply not work.

 

We need to use nuclear batteries. Encased in lead. SHouldnt have any radiation issues. I think they use them on space ships and satelights. Drive non stop from maine to California.

 

Those are nowhere near impossibilities. Challenges and hurdles yes, impossible, no. Batteries could be swap-able smart modules exchanged at stations. The whole swap could even be automated and performed in seconds. Even electric hub motors could be swapped out in seconds. Imagine replacing the entire power-train in you gas car in 90 seconds? Now that's impossible! Charging infrastructure obviously is need to be invested in. Realistically, hydrogen gas will be the future 'long haul' fuel. You could have a small hydrogen generator module popped into an EV for times when extended range is needed. There are lots of possible solutions.

 

You seriously want Jimmy Joe Bob Jr. fiddling with nuclear batteries in the back yard?

 

Also, since a lot of battery charge is spent accelerating from a standstill, it would make sense to install mainsprings (like in old, wind-up alarm clocks) on each wheel in such a way that when you stop, the force of the car stopping is used to wind the springs up. After coming to a stop, you use the energy stored in the springs to start you from a dead stop. This would add life to both the motor and the battery.

 

I do not drive, anyway.

 

Or, you can do what many EV' already do, like the chevy volt, and put a generator under the hood. If you want to go somewhere that requires lightweight high-capacity energy storage, like camping off-road, you can just fill up and grab an extra gas-can.

And think, realistically, about where most people drive: a golf cart would do as well, if outfitted with a radio and turn signals. A so-called "neighborhood" ev, of the type than can be built for a few hundred dolllars in second hand parts, would do most people just fine. I drive a couple hundred highway miles a week, and I could still use a full EV from a company like tesla and never run dry. And I'm the exception. Go on vacation on the train, or rent a vehicle.

 

Bio diesel ftw.

 

Yes right,
electronic cars/bikes make our environment fully healthy and pollution free so we should use electronic products.

 

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The car industry is so full of shit. They're like, "well we tried to sell EV's and nobody wants them...bla bla bla EV's fail, bla bla bla liberals are stupid...".

If I could actually afford to buy a new car, I could pay 40K for a Chevy Volt, OR, I could get a Chevy Cruze for 17K! Even if I spent $160 a month on gas for the Cruze It would be cheaper than the Volt.

Can you blame anyone for not choosing the Volt?
The industry is pricing these EV's to fail. The kind of people who want and need EV's can't afford to pay 40K for one.

 

If anyone has any actual, personal experience with water-powered cars, PM me. I am not an engineer by any means, but I am passionate about making a difference for ourselves and our planet. I'd love to meet someone who's skilled and knows his stuff.

Currently don't drive, but when I do get a car, I don't want it running gas. While electric sounds does sound promising, I want to be able to travel around freely without having to worry about where I'm going to charge. The current electrics are better for people who are settled in for the rest of their lives. Oh, and of course they're expensive, too.

 

General Motors has finally realized that $40,000 is too much to charge for a Volt. The new price is $35,000, still way more than a Leaf or Prius.

Their next electric car will be the Cadillac ELR. I don't expect that to be cheap, either.