The EGO & LSD, I've found my conclusion

I never said anything about control other than that it is not the only aspect by which the eternal now is liveable. If we are not going to get into what's right and wrong, how about we avoid assumptions as well? I mean it only seems fair to me.
As it stands now though, Im not exactly sure entirely what we are in disagreement about? I realize I may have come off a bit rude by saying you are not taking the right approach, but Bill how can you see what someone is talking about if you dont approach in a way that people have been telling us to, in every walk of life, from time immemorable? Yes, you can have your choice of being aware of the fact that you are aware of the now, that is, dropping the confines of time all together. Or you can live in your imagination from 'time' to 'time'.
But no matter what, you can not escape the eternal now, no matter where or when you think your mind is, the fact of the matter is that we all exist together in the same present moment, always have, always will, and there is no way around it. It is a fact that also that your memories and imaginations take place in the eternal now, again, unavoidable. The eternal now is almost as esoteric and profound as God itself, in that you cant touch it and you cant seperate from it. Being that there is no way to define it other than to experience it, it takes effort on the individuals part in order to transcend time, space, and the mind in order to live it, thus my reasoning for right and wrong.

 

And don't let Relayers post starting a new page have you miss my points.. I've been trying to explain it more thoroughly by acknowledging what you apparently don't understand and then clearing up the confusion..

 

Ah, I see. We are disagreeing on the stance that living in the mind set of the creative engine is either outside now or contained by it.
I apologize Im not able to fully concentrate while at work on this too well.
Anyway I should think that my previous post still encompasses my opinion on the matter

 

You the man sw0o0sh

 

haha you guys are being such dickheads

 

Ok i dont seem to disagree with what either of you are saying so im going to try and sum up what my point is and hopefully you will see how I am adressing what you are both saying.

This thread is about the power of now, of existing in the moment. I believe existing in the moment is the most powerful state, indeed. The very notion of power implies control, but lets just forget about the whole control thing for a moment.

I also believe that everything must exist in the eternal now, that is just a necessary property of consciousness - it is always 'now'. But when we say this, it makes the whole point of this topic redundant because you cant talk about the power of now if everything is now. It seems a different distinction is being made with the notion of 'now'. I interpret Sw00sh's theory to suggest the distinction is between being present vs getting caught up in the ego's manifestations.

but I am suggesting that the distinction is between being present or being in the imagination. What you descriube as ego, sw00sh, i would describe as a framework of importance in our lives, of relevance or value or identification. This framework, and others, are the inspiration for our imagination. We as humans could imagine almost anything, just as we could do almost anything, but we dont. we do relatively few things and think relatively few things. Those things we do think and do tend to occur according to an expectation in the framework.

I think that the importance of our posessions has al ot to do with how it influences the way we imagine ourselves to be. It is not like people with a lot of things actually interact with these things and involve them in their lives. But teh value of posession has importance to their lives, beit superficial.

and to relayer - how else is reality livable? we either control it or submit ourselves to it. there is no middle ground, and the default is being controlled. When we see the world illuminated to us, it is being forced upon us, our sensations and thus all the information we are struck with in every conscious moment can be considered an act of control by some external force. This exeternal force may be reality. this reality may be anything. It might be some rigid universe, or it might be a Matrix-style installment under God. But what we can be sure of is that we are controlled by whatever it is that fuels our conscious sensation of the world, We can to a certain degree control the world 'with our will'. for example, depending on our soophistication, we can influence the world so that our senses align to our taste. Or other wills can control the world and thus control our world to a certain degree. Although we can always control our thoughts to a certain degree, our thoughts are instigated primarily by environmental cues. There is a constant harmony and tide of control between our wills and the worlds we live in and the worlds in our minds.

You keep reiterating the importance of now, but it doesnt seem to explain your disliking of my 'control' perspective. It appears to me that you disagree due to the negative implications involved with the word 'control'. but i dont want to make assumptions. either way, Im not disagreeing that everything occurs 'now' but there are other ways of using the word now with relation to our consciousness. we need to use other ways otherwise this thread is trivial.

You say there is no way to touch it other than to experience it, and what I say does not oppose this but instead suggest a further consideration of the makeup of experience - this conscious perspective that comes with it the word 'I' and the notion of will or judgement.
Every experience involves these things, for an experience without a subject would be an event, and an experience without reference to the motive or reflection of the subject would have no meaning.

The latter concept that comes with consciousness - the fact that it is dynamic with the world, can will into the world certain thoughts and actions, and is in turn a constant slave to the conditions of his conscious experience, is the concept that further can be considered and referred to as a balance of control.

 

Well your assumptions are correct in any case Bill, I've made my view of control and will very public on this forum for the past 4 years or so.
I do absolutley not think that we in any way, shape, or form, have control over absolutley anything.
However what has led me to this state of being has entailed the most difficult and mentally trying episodes in my life to date, and are truly inexpressable.
So I try to leave that out of the conversation since really, I've only run into maybe 3 people so far who share this state of being.
It is so easy to see this state of being as one rooted in fear, worry, and hope, however those 3 very things, in that exact order, are what led me through myself and my screen of personality and the process of ego death talked about so often on here is like the baby step, in my opinion, of relinquishing the notion that any of us, or anything, are acting on our own, without the metaphorical puppet strings linked to no our genetics, but the spiritual light which I believe creation blossomed out from and dies back into.
So you assumptions, again, are correct, however I dont find control sinister, I find them delusional, but normally refrain from sharing that opinion due to the obvious response one would expect from someone who has not even entertained the thought, let alone live through the act of being out of (one's own) control.
As for the eternal now, I guess I should pay more attention to the thread's true intention before throwing my own observations out there which are entirely beyond and hope for peace and control but is aimed, rather, at approaching reality for what it is.
God Bless

 

"One who can see that all activities are performed by the body, which is created of material nature, and sees that the self does nothing, actually sees."

Couldn't that have just summed up your whims with control at the time?

 

Ah! Bhaktivinoda? Im impressed friend.
I do like this quote, and it does accuratley sum up my glimpse into the mode of action.
Pretty much the same as one of the Gita quotes from Krishna :
"You have the right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty."
-Gita ch. 2-v. 47
Though that quote doesnt sit well with some people, due to control issues, of course.
God bless

 

only a fool would think they have it all figured out!

"The ego & lsd, i've found my conclusion" ~ in an infinite reality why limit yourself?

if you have truly found all you need to know about the ego and lsd then you have failed to convey that message. which actually means that you have not figured it out, if you did you would be able to convey your message.

i doubt that anyone can say they have it all figured out without being full of shit while trying to feed their ego in some way that they are not even aware of...lol

 

Aww 3xi why do you always wanna attack meh :-S But just for old times sake,

Did I ever say I had it "all figured out"? No -- I believe I said I've found my conclusion, meaning the digging's going to end for a while. I understand I'll never have anything ALL figured out. The words and wisdom I learn from others and spiritual texts may be enough to bring me contentment, joy, and happiness through most of my lifes situations, but I'm also aware that all these were originally created by the people, and then handed to the people (It's called "faith" for a reason).

It seems to me by that fact above I can never be 100% sure.. and guess what? neither can you ever be sure about me or what I'm about or what my intentions and motives are if such even exist, as you'll never know me for who I am despite the words you read from me on this page. But for as far as motives and intentions goes, I was hoping somebody might stumble across what I posted on the original page and have it actually mean something to them and dig deep with them, or maybe just spark some curiosity, whatever it may be. So please get over the assuming, it just really doesn't make for peaceful conversation and is a waste of time if you "think" about it. What good is this anyway if you learn something from it, do you just retort back on a remark you should of never even made?

To me there's more to life than constantly trying to learn about the ego and finding truths while being high on lsd. Once the truths I need are known, I go back to living my life. And what truth do you ever really need besides to be content with yourself while following your heart in the here and now anyway? If my ego still exists, I accept it, it's what is.

And if I'm a fool, then being a fool is the shit.

Peace & Love 3xi

 

the post above mine is very correct and as a person currently on... lsa, i ask you 3xi to remeber being here, remeber your center. remeber that all is as it seems. you must be here now, the more you can remeber to understand and adhere to that the more pleasently you will be able to interact with other people without seeming like such a know it all.

 

ahh the thing i just posted is obviously a sign of me comming down. i should not care.

 

what is the definition of conclusion?

 

You keep talking of control and being controlled as a state of being.. but it is not. I am referring to concepts that together apply to all moments of consciousness. Consciousness comes with this delusion of choice, you might say, this delusion of will. It says nothing at all about the person, because people arent fully aware of the extent to which their 'will' whether it is real or a delusion, controls the world, nor are they always aware of how they are being controlled. We spend most of our time being controlled, by the universe.
I cant say that my use of the word control os better or correct, but I think you are using the world to apply to control as a means of manipulation and acheiving one's goals. But that is even further the human delusion of their own delusion, you could say.

If you think you control nothing then you would with total likelihood, have no mind at all. If a mind is just a window of observations, a mental realm constantly controlled by forces it is unaware of, then what would it be? there would be no concept of responsibility or 'will'. It would be almost as a plant is conscious.

(yes i realise there are those of you who believe plants are consciouss)



Well I also consider control to be a delusion because it only exists in our minds. however, the only thing that ultimately exists before anything else is our mind/consciousness. No matter what you believe nor under any circumstances can you doubt your own conscioussness' existance.

 

lol... you can say that again!

 

And for all we know, a sort of collective plant consciousness could be much more advanced than ours. But we dont know, so it's pointless to even argue that point.
The control Im talking about is the exact same control you are talking about, being controlled by the universe. Being aware of being controlled is what Im talking about, not just the simple delusion of control which is bent on satisfaction and accumulation, but naturally that comes first for most people.
And as for your last bit, about not being able to doubt one's own consciousness exists, I agree with this however what Im talking about is that our consciousness exists as a whole rather than as individual deposits of itself, that being the delusion of reality. At least, that's how 'I' see it
God bless -

 

Consciousness permeates,

:grouphug:

 

Yea it sure does.
It really is just that God is impersonal, and knowing this, we can start to see what is really going on. When we have isolated positions towards life, we either have faith or non faith in that very God but we can never touch it. The expectation of after life or ego death or whatever, is just that, an empty hope. Nature is not existing for any reason other than to act, but there is a perfect balance between positivity and negativity, or yin and yang, that is found within and without everything. What is God though? Beyond that awareness which moves reality, we can not know because there is nothing to know, other than which we think we know and that causes the major problems with seperation and identity with the body and mind.
The energy within everything is nature at it's source for existing in what we can sense, but beyond that energy is an awareness, and I choose to call it God. But I dont expect it to love me, nor do I expect to get to know it, because like I said there is nothing to know, we are already and have always been a part of it.
What did your face look like before you were born?
Namaste

 

my face wasnt though was it,

its just condensation on the screen , emptiness or original face concept of Zen Buddhism.

i very much appreciate the insight Relayer

Shalom