Synthetic cannabanoid smokes.

There's thousands, and the worthwhile, safe(r) ones are now illegal.

I'm not talking about clouded judgement, I'm talking about depersonalization and similar problems.

You just told me that there are thousands of these drugs, and then, because you've tried a few of them, that I'm weak because I have the same response thousands of people do to some of them.

Maybe the spice smokers can't tell, but when I meet a spice smoker, I can tell. It usually puzzles them that I know without having ever met them before.

 

Not week. Just shallow or lacking in a grounded view of your reality. As many people who use drugs to just "lose themselves".. or to cope with boredum and social displacement. Of course i don't know you so nothing i say really matters or has merit.. :sunny:

 

I'm an advocate of full legalization of everything.

But you are one of the classic examples brought up against me all the time.

"there's kids who just think they're too strong for it, yada yada yada"

I always say education will help, we can teach people to be responsible and cautious, etc. But they're right i guess, because even giving advice AS a pretty hardcore (by most peoples standards) druggie, I frequently get ignored by kids who think they're just too strong for the bad effects of a drug.

Step back and think about what you're doing. Yeah, they feel good, and there's no worries if you're just going to smoke more. But you might come to treasure sobriety with time, if you don't burn your brain out too badly first.... And when you enjoy being sober as much as being high, not being able to think right will bother you. Your brain's not even fucking formed yet, you're 16.... Smoke pot if you please, I know I did plenty at your age, and was with someone younger than you a week ago(he was the one sharing with ME, I might add). But synthetic cannabiniods are just all around stupid, when they're already in an increasingly grey area legally, and there's CANNABIS, and we know they're harmful in multipule ways.

But I'm just some guy on the internet, my opinion doesn't really matter, and you won' take it into account.

 

Good god those K2/ Spice blends are nasty. You get fucked up for a good half hour, total head rush. I'd describe it as a adderall high with a little bit of cannabis. Oh and did I mention the paranoia? You feel jittery, I honestly cannot tell you how bad this stuff is. Some people like it, though I don't know how.. I will warn you though, as potent as it is, coming from a hippy like myself I state my honest opinion: It should be illegal. Oh, and screw above the influence.

Maybe in really small doses I'd enjoy it, but you can OD with ease. It's synthetic, and that's all it'll ever be.

 

You can call yourself a hippie or anything you want, but if you think any drugs should be illegal you DON'T UNDERSTAND and are, flat out, a bad person.

If you smoke them wrong, you do have a much shorter duration and a much worse high. People who don't understand it's meant to only take a tiny pinch have bad times. It's the whole moronic "it's legal, it can't be that strong" mentality that gets people into trouble with "bath salts" and the like. And this mentality is caused because of your blatantly, proudly stupid stance on chemicals and laws.

Ammonia and bleach are both pretty poisonous, and together, make very deadly chlorine gas. They're legal. And they SHOULD be legal.

OP, this doesn't nullify my argument against your stupid use of these stupid chemicals one bit, of course.

 

Well put, and I agree with like 98% of all that you said. Teenagers really shouldn't fuck with too much, though they always will (I sure did), and you can go on about the dangers of this or that until you're blue in the face, but talking sense to a teenager is the equivolent of talking down to them.

I'm sure you were a stubborn druggie misfit teenager just like me and know that fact all too well. Maybe your point won't be lost on him, and I certainly hope not for his sake, but even if he's a classic case of deaf ears to harm reduction, he's still a developing adolescent. Factor that in, think back to careless, reckless things you did, and put it into perspective I guess is where I'm going with that.

On a seperate note, I've never tried any synthetic cannabinoids, but due to the cannabis dry spell in my area, I broke down and bought 35g of a mix that's being custom blended for me. I know everything that's going into it, even down to the ratios, precise substances, herbs, & amounts of each chem.

So I'm curious how cautious I should tread when toking, & how much to smoke at any given moment, as well as how often I ought to smoke my blend vs. space out smoking my blend when I do use it.

The blend is: dream herb, blue lotus, white lotus, sacred lotus, spearmint, wild dagga, opium lettuce, & JWH's-019, 081, 122, 203, 210, 250, & 251 in a 1:1 ratio at 60-70mg/g of herbs with 5-MeO-DALT too at 40-50mg/g of herbs. I know I shouldn't smoke much at a time, nor as often as THIS ol' pothead would and does toke away on weed when it's around, especially with the tryptamine addition in the mix. I was also thinking of adding some syrian rue extract to the mix to make a sort of super-changa for smoking DMT with.

I know you think the synthetic cannabinoids are stupid to use and all, but moderation taken into account, I don't think the risks are going to be too terribly severe nor damaging in the least. Just from one Internerd druggie to another, what *objective* advice could you offer me RooRshack?

On a non sequitor note, I was just debating the merit of full legalization of all drugs in the 2C-T-2 thread. I have a pretty firm stance where that's concerned, but to summarize the main point of it, I believe that society as a whole would be more educated, safer, & have access to drugs that in the current state of affairs often times put people six feet under just by going to the neighborhood corner to score & getting caught in the line of fire. Additionally, doctors would play their role in society in a better capacity by writing recommendations rather than prescriptions, drug cartels & gangbangers would go out of business & thus violent crimes would lessen considerably, & set up properly, people would be able to walk into a designated drug store, buy their heroin, PCP, acid, cocaine or whatever, pay much more reasonable prices (even after taxes) than on the street corner or from random Internet vendor "x", have access to literature detailing safe use, & I believe in the end, hospitalizations & OD's would decrease significantly as well (not to mention the prison industrial complex wouldn't be full of innocent people spending 20 to life for distribution, manufacturing, or possession).

 

Buying the blends is economically ignorant. It is dangerous, and you are never sure what chemical is being ingested, nor are you aware of the effect it has on your body- nobody truly is. That information does not exist.

I think they should be illegal, and know numerous people who smoke only these blends on a daily basis. 95% of them act like drunken, stoned retards.
It's is pathetic, and in no way is an adequate alternative to pot, especially good pot.

I could go on forever.

Great post, I agree with every point.

 

Oh good god, that's a lot of cannabiniods. It's going to be like flakes of plant floating in white powder

I don't know anything about dalt or it's effects.

I can't say a whole lot about that, other than go verrrry easy, with lots of commercial "spice", .1g is plenty, for that, i'd say start at the smallest amounts you can, and work up until you're where you want to be.

I don't think smoking syrian rue would do anything, could be wrong.

 

Hehe, flakes of plant floating in white powder... he actually uses lab grade ethanol to disperse the chems onto the herbs, but yeah, I catch your drift, I got to name my mix, too & I went with 'Molotov Cocktail', lol

Yeah, I figured as much that like a weensy little pinch will go a LOOONG way. And I know, too, that 60-70mg at a 1:1 ratio of JWH cannabinoids is actually a pretty heavy dose of 'em. As for the DALT, it's kind of a mild sike snorted or oral, but smoked it's kinda heady. Still more mild than most sikes, but certainly not at all placebo.

The syrian rue doesn't do much on its own, it's got the harmala alkaloids & they are very mildy psychedelic, also somewhat antidepressant though too as they're MAOI's. So that means they'd potentate & lengthen both the DMT & DALT effects, & possibly even the cannabinoid's effects. It's the potential to increase the effects of 7 synth cannabinoids that has me on the fence about the syrian rue extract. I imagine if I *did* add it, it would take like a pinky finger pinch to do the job if the cannabinoids are potentated (which is just a speculation that they might be). Anyway, yeah, it should be hellza potent & the only 2 reasons I bought the stuff is 'cause I designed the entire blend so I know to some extent what I'm in for, & just mostly 'cause weed is scarce in my town ATM.

 

I just thought syrian rue had to be taken orally, but I don't realy know anythign about ayahausca, so don't listen to me. (I didn't know it did anything other than MAOI, for that matter)

I wouldn't add it anyway, that's already quite a chemical cocktail you're taking.

When I was.... "self employed" with spice (when it was more legal to be thusly employed) I think we did 18g oregano to 1g JWH-018 dissolved in standard high purity isopropanol, and it was very strong, .1 was the my reccomended starting dose for people who haden't used spice, and they'd ALWAYS get blown on that, after a few seconds of complaining about nothing happening. Just the sheer number of chemicals in your blend would make me expect stronger effects for the total chemical amount. I do not, however, know the dosings for those cannabinoids, 018 was all I ever played with. You should probably research them for potency, and start with what would be a good starting dose for the MOST potent, assuming that you converted the total dose of cannabinoids to that one, if this makes sense at all.

That is, if X is the most potent cannabiniod, and Y is the total dose of cannabiniods per however much mix, convert everything as though Y is made up of only X.

Anyway, sorry for my jumbled post, and be careful! They can be fun chemicals, but make sure you go DO something on them, it's very easy to let your mind go blank on JWH, and just blow time. Then when you come down that ability to mentally do NOTHING sort of follows you....

 

Me and the gf were in the mood to get high last night, but had just ran out of pot. So I FINALLY found my bag of 073, have enough left for 2-3 bowls. So I sandwiched an eyeballed amount (dont do this with jwh 018!!), looked like roughly 30mg, in between damiana. It was a wonderfully smooth smoke, and we both got very high, in a very nice way. It will never replace marijuana, but as a cheap as sin legal alternative, it's pretty fantastic. Just don't waste your money on the blends like spice, buy the active ingredient, you will get high for like 1% the cost of "spice".

 

yeah, with 8 different potent cannabinoids, you're gonna known exactly how much to use. i like how you later went on to say that you didn't know how much to take.

also, do you know if he's using 190 proof or 200 proof ethanol? important question. 200 proof will have traces of benzene in it, which is a potent carcinogen.

 

:ack2:

.....ummm, good points porkstock, so my logic is less than stellar? Like, fuzzy fuzzy logic. Dang, benzene huh? I guess that the cigarettes will have something to compete with, 'cause I ain't got a clue whether it's 190 or 200 proof.

Well, you must admit, there's a funny irony somewhere in there then in my naming it 'Molotov Cocktail', 'cause you're absolutely 100% right. I ain't gonna have clue one what to expect. And I might get cancer of the lungs. Faster.

You care to send me a "gift basket", wink, wink, nudge, nudge? Help save a life as the good humanitarian I know you are!

EDIT: It's actually *only* 7 potent cannabinoids, and one tryptamine. And 6 psychoactive herbs. And potentially one more tryptamine. And possibly even a MAOI. Only that stuff. Certainly *NOT* 8, but your point is taken & well recieved.

 

Yeah.

Looooow doses until you know how these things react. What's your spice guy think of it?

Get a pyrex dish, a few dollars worth of 91% isopropanol rubbing alcohol, and 2 bucks worth of cheap oregano.

mix your jwh into alcohol so that it's saturated, but not super saturated, and totally dissolved.

Wearing rubber gloves to avoid absorbing too much iso or JWH, mix, ideally from a spray bottle, the alcohol over the oregano. You can use a fan or other means to help it evaoprate faster, and when it's dry keep soaking it and mixing it well while wet until all the alcohol is on.

Much cheaper, and you know exactly what goes into your mix, and exactly how much, and that it's all food grade.

 

Hey dude, thanks for not essentially subtley calling me a dumbshit, lol, which I know defensive porkstock meant no offense or harm by. I also know you share that opinion, but I'm figuring you're reserving your opinion on the matter of these chems since I'm at least attempting to limit hazards & maintain some sense of harm reduction (even if I overlooked some key factors... I didn't mention it until now, but the guy said he's also used acetone to disperse the compounds. I just thought, "EGADS!" when he mentioned that).

Regardless of the slight, to porkstock's credit, he did get me thinking. A lot actually. In part about that benzene issue, in part about just what to expect from 14-16 psychoactives in one, & greatly in part about how great it would be for someone to send me a "gift basket" of diesel, blueberry, or some funky BC or SF caliber bud.

If I had a genie in a lamp, that would be my first of three wishes. A few pounds (or more) of some lovely 75/25 indica/sativa blend that's so sticky, completely female & grown hydroponically with all the care & attention to making the buds grow high and mighty as any good cola (sp?) should be tended to so as to make every crystal whether white, red, purple, or simply green shine and some, not all but some crystals fall to the bottom of the bags & pile up into the most wonderous of keif imaginable. I don't have a genie in a lamp though, just herbs with potent fake cannabinoids, and a LOT from what I gather. 35mg is a hellza big supply of something so potent, wouln't you say so RooRshack? porkstock? Mr. Writer? Anyone?

You know RooRshack, I honestly have been beating myself over the head for having not just bought a few of the chems like porkstock (& you) have suggested, ordered the herbs myself, & done just as you suggested (though I was going to use Everclear).

Shit, even Mr. Writer went that route, well, that's not surprising. He never gets up to the hijinx I'm well renowned around these parts for (like smoking 14-16 psychoactive substances in one sitting).

Here's the thing, I just figured that I didn't know squat about these chems & since until a few weeks ago, there was at least 4 oz. or so at all times in my home. I'm now down to about 5 joints & 2 roaches. Before now, I always thought fake pot wasn't worth consideration since weed was always plentiful, which I still think of blends, even my own custom blend, exactly in that way.

I didn't think that JWH, CP, WIN, & whatever other compounds exist were a waste or anything, I just had little interest in them. Granted, I do sure wish I'd tried 018 & 073 before the ban, but it's really no biggie to me.

Anywhooo, I decided to carefully choose a handful of sedating herbs & 1 flavorful herb. I'm sorry, but oregano, marshmallow, raspberry leaf, or damiana sound disgusting to smoke, if I had to narrow it down to just ONE herb out of the 7, it'd be the spearmint since the 6 psychoactive herbs--dream herb, blue lotus, wild dagga, opium lettuce, white lotus, & sacred lotus--collectively might give a slight buzz, but again would taste like shit.

I've already spent the dough, so I can't exactly do much.

Perhaps I could ask my guy to send me the herbs & chems unmixed, all even in individual packages (except the herbal blend) so I'd have an herbal mixture, and 8 little baggies, 7 of which being assorted JWH compounds, 1 being the DALT. He may or may not go for that. I am considering that alternative, & if I did that, of 98% isopropyl alcohol or Everclear, which would leave the least taste & be less harmful as well?

Now porkstock, why on earth is benzene an additive in 200 proof lab grade ethanol? Alcohol doesn't go bad like foods, about all it does is evaporate. I don't see why a preservative is added to, of all things, a lab grade product (especially 100% ethanol). Where did you find that information man? After this post, I'm writing him to find out one way or the other.

Lastly, RooRshack, I do like the suggestion of researching the JWH compounds that'll be in this 1 1/4 oz. mixture & taking chem X with the highest potency, & taking chems Y, assuming their potency out of the equation & being really careful to judge my consumption entirely against chem X's efficacy. For some reason I believe the 122 is the strongest, it seems that that came up in an early conversation with him. Props for the sound judgement. Who knows, maybe my guy will be all too happy to not have to do the work himself? Oh, & my guy's opinion? Aside from the potentially ironic name, he thinks I picked a good mix of herbs & chems. He's interested in trying it himself.

 

care to share how much your blend is costing?

benzene is added to get the alcohol to "100%"
you can't get alcohol to 100% purity by simple distillation because it forms an "azetrope" with water. so the highest you can go is ~95% (don't quote me on the numbers) so they add benzene which for reasons i don't fully understand...help get it closer to 100% (more like 99% though)
so if you're ever doing an extraction or something that will be ingested, it's best to use 190% ethanol.

i have zero experience with synthetic cannabinoids. the only other things i have inhaled the vapors of, besides cannabis are..tobacco a few times, oregano as a nasty trick, a few vaporized herbs like chamomile flowers, lavendar, jasmine, damiana (not good)...

anyways, i wouldn't know if 35 mg of any of those chems is a high dose. i don't really recall how you said your mix was dosed, so if you wanted to repeat yourself...

i agree that it's wise to treat the whole entire mix of chems as one "amount" and dose it based on the potency of the most potent one.

and it seems like you have more weed than me, even though you say it's sparse. i buy 20 or $40 worth at a time, so i don't ever have 5 joints sitting around. if you were local, i'd definitely burn one with your crazy ass, but no way in hell i'd mail it - especially to texas.

 

Oy vey, yeah, I'll share. It's actually rather inexpensive for all of the stuff in it, it's $150 for 1 1/4 oz. (35g). I know from having researched before talking to this dude that I could've made a gargantuan batch for myself with fewer chems & herbs but for a WHOLE, WHOLE lot less.

Alright, you've been right more than once regarding safety concerns (as with the 2c-ef flouro atom thing). This benzene shit does not sound good one bit. And I haven't been able to get in touch with the dude. Ugh.

The mix is dosed at a 1:1 ratio with 60-70mg/g of herb. I've never smoked these things either, but a close friend of mine who has the same philosophy as me, that it beats nothing but that good nugs simply can't be replaced by these fake pot mixtures. He also says they don't quite feel the same *exactly*, close, but not the same. He says too that they don't give you the munchies, they tend to last a lot, lot longer, hit you like a ton of bricks at first, but that you build a tolerance in a hurry to them. So basically, you apparently can't smoke this shit like there's no tomorrow even if you wanted to if you want to continue getting the same effect (& not feeling dull in the head for having smoked too much as well is an issue).

I most certainly am going into this with caution, I really want to be able to enjoy it. In fact, I've actually been waffling on if I really even want the DALT in there at all. I don't know.

5 joints & 2 roaches, I guess that's not nothing... it's certainly enough to last me the week, but that's it at the rate I toke. I'd smoke you out since I apparently have more, but there's no way on this green earth that I was even halfway being serious about sending pot in the post. Holy shit, my dad is talking about having pot sent to him here in Texas in a fucking thermos from all the way up in Seattle. That is shithouse insane to me. I'll buy & allow all kinds of things to be shipped by post that can easily be concealed & don't smell like skunks. But that's where I draw the line.

I know folks who ship weed in the mail, but I'd never take those kinds of chances. I don't know, if it was vacuum packed and shipped inside coffee grounds, perhaps, but only perhaps. Even then probably not.

 

so is that 60-70 mg/g of bud TOTAL or per chem?
what made you want to include the DALT (is it 5-meo-dalt?) in the first place?

 

People need to realize this substance is NOT WEED. It's nice when you take a few puffs or a fat rip but if you treat it like weed and start rolling 1g blunts of it or doing bong loads in a short period then you can expect to be put into the paranoia.

A lot of people get ripped off buying the incense paying over $20 for very small amount. It's extremely cheap to make and you could probably make your own blend with very little effort for a fraction of the cost, You would also gain the advantage of knowing exactly how much of everything your putting into the blend. I believe someone already said how to do this above.

 

That's the total end mixture of all JWH's, fuck, I wouldn't trust it for all the fake dope in the world if it was per chem. That would be suicidal.

I had some 5-meo-dalt back in Jan. & smoking it puts you in a spaced-out funky headspace for about 1/2 hr. to an 1 hr. It's mildy hallucinogenic, but more than that, it's kind of dreamy. 2 wks. ago when I ordered the stuff & worked out the kinks with the guy making it, it sounded kind of interesting at the time. On reflection though, I can't stand the taste & I do fear that spearmint alone, or the potential perfumey taste of the 3 lotus flowers even won't mask it & I refuse to have a flavored additive thrown in there; I hate menthol cigarettes & that would be about the only flavoring that would compliment the spearmint.

On the one hand, dalt is an interesting & mild buzz, but on the other hand, it's a horrid tasting chem. I phased out of using meph largely in part because the taste makes me gag. So I'm a little skeptical of this. I guess I'll have to ask that too, if the dalt is noticeable in the smoke's flavor.

Hell, the more I keep thinking about this, the more I think I'd like each chem sent in individual baggies, the dalt I'm really uncertain about, & to take RooRshack's advice, read up on each on wikipedia or somewhere, & just mix it myself.

Meh, I hope I didn't waste $150 on something I won't enjoy. I think fortunately he's still waiting for my herbs to arrive.