Support the troops?

Send them a bigger and better built Rifle.

 

the bush admiting it was a mistake was on one of his many appearances in public... it was on the new a while back when he was making one of his retarded speaches as usual... i cant give u a website or anything. i think the best thign to do at this point is fro people to just quit joining the war, and if they get drafted ( do they even draft anymore?) then rip up ur drafts and leave the country. america is dead... just liek the other countries. fuck the flag.

 

Ironically, the troops in Vietnam were spit on, shat on, and generally dehumanised by American citizens after they came home from a war in which they were forced to fight in. The troops that are in the Middle East right now volunteered and it has become hugely unacceptable to denounce them in any way. WTF?

Anybody who considers themselves to be anti-war but yet says "I support the troops" is a hypocrite. Just what are you supporting? You want the troops to do a "good job" (win the war) but yet you are against it...?????? Can someone please explain this to me?


freedom for all -- Bush has never admitted that the war has been a "mistake." the u.s. does not draft.

 

Meh, I denounce the US troops, but I live in a free country, so I suppose I may do so.

 

I do not support the war in Iraq. At the same time, I pray that no US Soldier over there has to kill anyone..especially innocent women and children. I also pray these soldiers think for themselves and if they disagree with this mess, then to refuse to fight and not suffer at the hands of our Govt. This is not an easy answer to give over the internet. I STILL have a hard time expressing myself with this issue when someone is in front of me and I have oodles of time to do so.

As long as the Govt keeps people POOR there will be people to fight in their wars. They keep classism going for a reason. If everyone is well off who the fuck is gonna fight on a foreign land for the GOVTs wants as opposed to a particular country's needs?

They dangle that carrot of sign on bonus', paid education, low cost car and home loans...oh, and the worlds worst free medical insurance there is. Ever visit a V.A? Its worse than a county hospital. The Govt preys on these type of poor cuz they dont have an education or cant afford one..they go into the poorest parts of town to recruit for the army..the frontline guys and always the most under educated and most expendable.

I dont believe we should disband the military. In my opinion the military should only be used for 2 reasons:

1. To serve as a force to protect our own country.
2. To only involve itself with those country's who wish for democracy and rise up on their OWN BEFORE we get there or involved, and subsequently need our assistance to fend off dictators, etc.

Other than that, I am against the military for other uses but I cant hate these poor deluded soldiers who are in it for a buck...or feel they are somehow fighting for my freedom..they arent...the last war my/our freedoms were truly fought for was WWII..and ridding the world of Hitler...every war after that has been 100% propaganda....

I always said, if one wishes to be programmed join the military or scientology. They're the best at brainwashing. It seems though ex military after seeing such carnage, have the better chance of deprogramming and asking what the fuck was all that about? Actually come to think it, scientology may be less dangerous than the military.

 

I'd also like to add what I wish to see happen in Iraq. I wish victory for those Iraqis who are not extremist religious whackos. Those who wont beat their women if they show their face in the public, etc... I do not care if this group like or supports the U.S.. I dont care if they can accomplish this under secular or split religious rule..these are the ones I want to prevail. And even if this particular group is what our troops are assisting, it doesnt make the reason we went there a just reason. We were lied into war and I dont believe we have the right to commit an evil in order to bring about a good. It would have been one thing if these people rose up on their own and then we somehow got involved...ever see those images of Saddam in public? Its like EVERYONE had guns and rifles! These people had numerous chances to assassinate him if they wanted freedom. I dont believe there was never one in a bunch who didnt want this....and I dont buy into they were afraid...afraid of what? They dont have problmes blwoing themselves up do they?

 

Well, this website says this and that site says that, and the news said whatever, and the other news said whatever, blah blah blah.
Dont you realize that you can pretty much find whatever documentation you wish to back up your opinions? The news is not an infallible source of truth. You can cherry pick news articles like the Bush administration can cherry pick facts to start a war.
Its been proven that many news organizations have been swayed by the pentagon. Some news articles have been bought and paid for by the military.
Some have been pressured by the government to speak propaganda. Sometimes when a thing is reported on, the facts are completely changed. There are cases where one group does something, but it is reported that a different group did the dastardly deed instead. Its all about making the people think in a certain way. Thats how this whole mess got started! 9 11 was not done by Iraqis. It may not even have been done by Arabs at all. But yet that is what the news said so it must be true, right? I could do some research and post links to news stories that will tell you that 9 11 was pulled off by our OWN government in order to have an excuse to go to war.
My point being that no amount study of news facts will find the real truth.
And so, we (horrors) must think for ourselves, and form our own opinions. I have studied ALL sides, ad nauseum. Every side will tell you what they want you to believe. Just like this forum. Im suggesting TO HELL WITH DOCUMENTATION! We have eyes and brains, and hopefully morals, and if we have followed this thing right from the beginning, we can conclude that it is all about lies and manipulation. And so, this being the case, I cannot support any of it.
Strange thing, but I remember my absolute first gut impression on the morning that the twin towers went down. I watched that news clip over and over. I understood the plan. And a great plan it was, too. Maximum shock value. And the VERY first thought that went thru my mind was that George has really outdone himself this time! Oh, I dont think he planned it by himself, hes not nearly that smart, but I truely believe to this day that 9 11 was a setup by THIS government. And I could post umpteen links to websites and articles to prove my point, but I dont need to. Try thinking for yourself.

Why do you suppose so many people are so willing to blow themselves up volunarily? No one in their right mind would do this! Have you ever heard about the secret CIA mind control experiments? Seems they can fuck with someones mind so much that they can turn you into a total zombie if they need someone to do something particularly horrible. Its another form of brainwashing, similar to what they try to do with the troops, but far more evil. They start them as children. Theres a book called Trance Formation of America by Cathy O Brien and Mark Phillips that explains this in detail. Google it. I read this book and coincidentally a year later, the Jonbenet Ramsey murder happened, and it made my hair stand up on the back of my neck... Too much coincidence, maybe... But if my theory is right, I understand completely why they cant find the killer.

 

why is there no honor in that? To give yourself for you country?

Granted, this war is not in defense of our country, and is a shitty war
with not true reason, but these are the same soliders that will rush to our aide when the time comes for their need.

If you dont want to fight needless battles, dont join the military, but dont disrepect the ones who do it, because they will do it for us too.

I will fight for my country, when it is attacked and threated, but only on my terms and on my ground. Thats why im not in the military, and that is the difference in a warrior, and a soldier.

Soldiers, like roman ones, go out and do their governments bidding, warriors fight for freedom and defense, of their own will.

Both are deserving of our respect though.

 

i spoke with army young gay im mean guy . he was very nice very polite and told him i was behind him and supported them and thank him for doing his honorable job . he said he was wounded in the arm "not serius the bullet did not strike the bone and also had shrap in his leg but not serius either. since i did not wanted to keep a very long conversation "the festival was on and he was there as a recluter we did spoke about the piece of shit M-16 rifle and from his very own word he said the piece of shit did jam on him , i said to him = well i hope you guys get a new rifle soon and wish him lots of good luck. he was of spanish decent "but i dont know from where since i spoke to him in english only" i speak both but by his perfect english he was either born here or came here very young.

 

I agree with Heron 100% .

 

I understand your point ..I know the news is not infalable.. but it informs our opinions.. what you then do with the info you read is something different.. I know people that clearly know a reality.. but just wish to live in a fantasy.. I won't obviously name names..
I only post a link to a source if somebody says something that i have read to the contary to what they have said..[if that makes any sense] and i just think ''hang on'' .. Yes i agree you can probably find a snippet of something about everything.. but if you notice.. i have generaly tried to just say what i think... take it or leave it... I even posted something about how the media manipulate the truth ''war for oil''.. I see it and understand that point very well.
I could easily post the alternate view if i wished..like you i have read stuff from all angles..
Though what i post IS my HONEST opinion.. no manipulation.. no agenda.

All i really try and do is be honest with myself and what i say... just 'saying stuff' seems counter productive..or just hearing what you wish seems that also.

Like ''well i heard this on the news'' well i am sure it could be quoted from some source somehow.. what was ACTUALLY said and what was the ACTUAL context..

I don't just google ''this war is great legal and justified ... please tell me it is''

I am honestly not like that.. i do try and sort the wheat from the chaff... whatever i may source to is not some 'conspiracy website'..

Yes i know .. i think you are eluding to the ones in Iraq.. find out why that was done ?...If you take off the 'hysterical glasses'' you might see it was done with a good intention..

I disagree slightly.. i do form my own opinions by scrutinising what i read and watch [hours of this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/a-z_of_parliament/default.stm for e.g] and think it DOES help form a opinion..What else can you do ?.. Look at a situation and instantly come to a POV..

.. based on what ?.. logic like this [no disrespect]

Strange thing, but I remember my absolute first gut impression on the morning that the twin towers went down. I watched that news clip over and over. I understood the plan. And a great plan it was, too. Maximum shock value. And the VERY first thought that went thru my mind was that George has really outdone himself this time! Oh, I dont think he planned it by himself, hes not nearly that smart, but I truely believe to this day that 9 11 was a setup by THIS government.

don't you think now and again putting things in context.. reading what was actually said and looking at the finer points, help ?..

I agree to a point..but i think you have to have one hand on formal goverment documentation.. it might seem like i am being apologetic.. i am honestly not.

Followed what..what has been said what has been reported .. followed what.. ?

'we can conclude' i hope you are not manipulating me i hope you are not telling me what i/we should think ?.. HEAVENS .. your not brainwashing me are you ?

I could probaly do the same the oppposite way.. what did you base your 'gut reaction on' ?? .. I imagine on a bias and a prejudice..based on your morale inclination.. it would be lovely just to chat with you to dispel both or pre concieved notions.. maybe even inform each other.. though i doubt you would alter your mind .. maybe i would not.. thing is i already have .

I probably think for my self more than most.. that sounds pompouse.. but i reckon it is true.

Yes i have heard of that.. http://www.rossinst.com/manchurian.htm why was it canceled ??? because you can only programe somebody to do something or 'take over their mind' to a certain degree. Full total control of somebody is IMPOSSIBLE.. They wil only do it if the intial intent was there in the first place.

Religeon is a powerful tool ...The London bombers wer not secretly brain washed by the CIA.. they were ordinary people [with the school teacher at least decent members of society].. turned into zealots .. because of a No. of factors. They almost 'brainwashed' themselves.. but they i imagine slowly progressively turned their minds .. not a instant snap dicision.. They imho followed a path of self justification..based on a backward interpretaion of their religeon.
No nobody in their right mind would blow themselves up you would think !..
It may seem these gents and all those that 'suicide bomb' are not of sound mind.. though maybe they are ?.. wich is even scarier.

Can't say i have heard of it.. i will look it up .. i won't just add some glib response [though you may think my entire reponse is ?].

 

The japanse flew airplanes into american war ships they manage to sink a shit load of them including aircraft carrier.

 

Does my memory serve me correct.. are you the person who used to post loads of german natzi pictures and stuff.. ?.

Yeah they sank loads of american ships.. thumbs up to them right ?.. Yeah we sank plenty of theirs..... How tragic it resorts to this kinda crap..

 

You do not have to join the military to defend your country. Standing armies are a threat to freedom.

A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.” Martin Luther King

 

well said!

 

again well said !

 

thank you! i was trying to find away to express what you just did very well !! peace! may it be with you all of your days!

 

This thread floors me and this comment tops it off. With all due respect I don't think you have the slightest clue as to what is going on in the world around you. I honestly do not even know what to say in repsonse to some of these posts. I applogize for offending anyone but from my point of view this is all completely ludicrous. However we are all entitled to our own opinion, and I'm sure from your point of view I am brainwashed. It just seems odd to me that this forum represents about 5% of my communication, though it is a topic of discussion in many respects. From my diverse communication, the opinions of comments on these threads seems to be the same. Does anybody here ever wonder if they believe what they believe because of the lifestyle they live of the crowd they hang around???

 

Just like I like cops, I like soldiers. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of exceptions, but the politicians are where the problems lie.

 

I have to stand up for the Troops and our Country. We are not perfect, but we are the country that most of the rest of the world envies. You can hate how we do it, but you have to admit that we live a life of freedom that much of the rest of the world can only dream of. I realize that the European Countries are excluded from that list, but I work with a lot of third country nationals who would do anything to live and work in the USA.

I work in Iraq, and support the troops with more than words. Before you say that I am here for the money, let me mention that I took a 25% pay cut to be here. I work 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, and miss my family and friends. I do have the option to come home if it gets "too rough". Our soldiers do not have that option.

If American's want to give up their gas guzzling vehicles, and ride a bike to work, then we might not need allies in the middle east. I am not saying the war here is all about the Oil, but it does play a part. If you have complained about the price of gasoline in the last year, then don’t complain about the current administration for doing what it can to keep a level playing field. You can not have it both ways.

I wonder how you feel about the people that were under the thumb of the dictator for 34 years. Most lived an impoverished life, with little or no hope of change. The only people who could get ahead were the friends and family of the ruler. If any of you want to try that lifestyle, Cuba has an open door policy, but it only swings one way.

I have worked with Local Nationals who love their new opportunities. They make 2.00 an hour and have money left over to loan to family members who do not have jobs. They now have opportunity to marry and raise a family. Many of the people here are wonderful, warm hearted, and are embarrassed that insurgents have infiltrated their country and are turning it into a battle ground. Yes innocent people are being killed. We are trying to stop that. The bombs going off are from insurgents, criminals, and cowards. If we were to abandon our mission now, all hope of a bright future for Iraq would be lost.

I hate that lives are lost in the effort to create a safer country for US. We could have turned our heads and looked the other way, after September 11, but I for one am glad that we had a proactive response. We might have been off target, but never the less, the threat for future assaults was real. As for the WMD that was never found, there is much to that story that we will never know. We do know the mind and intent of the man on trial in Baghdad, and if he did not have them, he was working to obtain them.

I would guess that most of you have never encountered a person with as much evil in his heart as that man. If you think George W is a bad man, you would not want to have been an Iraqi and opened your mouth against the leader of that day. Of course if you had, you, your family and your children would no longer exist.

I am not angry, but saddened that our society has lost touch with the price that has been paid for our freedom. To not value our freedom is the first step towards loosing it.

James