Strengthen your faith in the bible Christians.

@Thedope: "Read the rocks if you want to date the earth"

LOL

Explain this to me please. I want to then correct you so you may see the folly of your beliefs. I see you have not read the entire thread. Typical.

 

What is a species ? Evolutionist can not agree. The definition is not clear and it can not be simply because evolution is a religion, leaning on many built in assumptions to make the theory look believable...then stacked on more built up theories to keep it, again believable.

A kind is like the family level in the animal kingdom. Studying what constitutes a kind would be a good scientific area of study. A legit one. A kind is also what God created 6,000 years ago at first. Through variation we get ....variations on the same kinds of animals. (250 variations of Dog, though they still have a common ancestor: A Dog).

The bible says kinds bring forth after their kind, 10 times in 30 verses. So, fertile animals that can bring forth. Though some exceptions are out there. Like some rabbits are not inter-fertile with other populations...but they are all still rabbits, still the same kind. This means that they reached the limits of varaiation...it does not indicate a new species or the process of macro evolution. There are limits on variation.

A zebra and a horse are the same kind. A coyote and a wold, fox are the same kind.

There are 14 varieties of finches, but they all are still a bird. One kind.

There are several variations of cats, such as lions, tigers, but there are all still Cats.

God does not lie. The definition 'species' is even more confusing. Look it up friend, and come back to this thread with the results.

You see all the genetic information is already there in these animals for the variations we see. They are not gaining new information. God is amazing that he would allow this to happen, to adapt to changing environments.

Any five year old can tell you what a kind is.


Peace my Good Brother.

 

Hey, O.W. Brother. Here is some literature on the speed of light not being a constant through out time (there are several different sources you can go to get more on it, I just grabbed this to be quick). This one is from a heven who believes in an old universe. Remember, God put all the laws in place...Praise the Lord!

It has also been shown to be slower. One study done at Harvard claims to have slowed the speed of light down to a foot per second, or something like that! Thing is we don't understand light. We can't grab it and paint it red. We call light waves of enegy...but really what is it ?

Oh, if you take the years/age peopled lived in the bible and trace it back to the creation you will get 6,000 years. The bible states strict genologies of Jesus, from this we are able to know the age of the earth biblically, to say nothing of the physical evidence that supports it.

Yom means a period of time. Yes, in the biblical sense, a 24 hr. period of time, roughly.

We are naturally on a seven day cycle. Napoleon Bonaparte tried a 10 day week and it failed hard. God made us to be on this cycle. No wonder he created the Earth in the same likeness. I'm sure he knows what he is doing...

 

1. There are no transition fossils.
2. There is no evidence for macro evolution
3. These scientists are the majority for a reason...If you were to go to communist Russia and teach that capitalism was a better idea and backed it with real evidence, you would be killed or exiled to Siberia.

Same with the closed university systems today. You have to teach this theory or be discriminated against or fired. There are a lot of people to back this up. You fail to understand why you must be taught evolution and the agenda of the humanist behind it. That, you are very ignorant of. Making claims that these evolution scientist are finding proof and are right because they all 'agree' is simply foolish. Give me some evidence and I will show you why you are wrong.

4. You can call Christianity a mind crippling disease, fine. But you believe you came from a rock, 4.6 billion years ago. Which is more crippling ?

5. You argue against God, this assumes God. You know in your heart God exist.

 

Can dogs and foxes cross breed?

So "bird" is a kind? That would be like saying "mammal" is a kind.


Re: Slowing light. The article you cite merely postulates one scientists untested theory about his disagreement with the theory of undiscovered matter.

The Harvard study you cite then only shows that when light passes through certain materials, it slows down. Light is a constant in a vacuum. It slows down in water too.

 

Oh, and Okie would consider himself a Christian.

 

Yes, a female dog (most terriers and hounds) can mate with a male fox.

There are probably several kinds of birds. For example: wood peckers and eagles, falcons and robins. It is not at all like saying a mammal is a kind...but they are all still birds. This is a good field of study for scientist to get into.

There is a lot of literature out there that says the seed of light has not always been a constant. I suggest looking for it. I will be making a long post on the age of the earth soon (God willing) and will have plenty of examples backed by sources. My poor examples provided (on the speed of light) is not by anymeans evidence for it either...it's out there.

One thing is for sure, there is no proof the universe is Billions of years old...God created Every thing some 6,000 years ago.

 

Jesus says in Mark 7:7-8

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

God is the ultimate authority on EVERYTHING. The doctrine that teaches the earth is billions of years old is nowhere stated in the bible or even backed by facts. It is false doctrine, simply. God reveals that the age of universe he created is a mere 6,000 years old. I beseech you to think about this. And forgive me, I do not in anyway mean to insult you or belittle you. I am just making a point brother Ukr-Cdn.

I Corinthians 14:33

For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canid_hybrid#Dog.E2.80.93fox_hybrids Nope.

What about dinosaurs? From the bone protiens in a fossilized T-Rex that YEC love to quote for a young earth they found they were most closely related to modern chickens. If you turna certain gene off on a chicken at a point in development it grown a long tail. Some birds also have primitive fingers as youth. I'd say dinosaurs, i.e. reptiles, fall under the "kind" of bird.

Or do you take your conclusions form the Bible the find evidence to fit (or the other way around).

I asked you in PM, but I will ask here. If it was proved conclusively tomorrwo that the universe is old, would you loose your faith in Jesus (not the Bible), but Jesus?

 

Evidence #1: Human beings all look different, based on genetics. Each person looks like a combination of their parents, and their parents, and so on and so forth.

Evidence #2: With these differences, some appearances and personalities are more favorable than others. More appealing traits allow people to more easily find mates and raise children.

Evidence #3: Eventually, the unappealing traits fade out from the inability to reproduce. The population looses these variations, keeping the more appealing ones. Thus humans have evolved to be more appealing.

Oversimplified, but you get the message. Point being, as seen in alot of other posts I've read on here, (haven't read all of them, mind you) the evidence is there.

 

I am not going to argue if Dogs and Foxes can interbreed. This is simply over looking the point...I'm sure it was possible and might be still. Dogs may not be the same kind of animal, fair enough. This does not prove they evolved from a rock. Some populations of rabbits cannot breed with southern most populations of rabbits. They are still rabbits. Go by what God has said, not man. You have to understand this.

Let's keep the kinds in prospective. Most five year olds can tell the difference, let us not forego common sense here for the sake of disagreeing.

I will never lose my faith in the Lord.

What about dinosaurs? From the bone proteins in a fossilized T-Rex that YEC love to quote for a young earth they found they were most closely related to modern chickens. If you turna certain gene off on a chicken at a point in development it grown a long tail. Some birds also have primitive fingers as youth. I'd say dinosaurs, i.e. reptiles, fall under the "kind" of bird.

The relationship of DNA is not a good way to determine the evolutionary relationship between any animal or classification. For a lot of reasons, the biggest being that evolution is not possible and that DNA is similar in all kinds of animals to some degree. .. It is a good way to state a common designer though. Inturpreting DNA is not a good idea on realationships of kinds of animals. It can not be done.

A bird is not a dinosaur. They are not the same kind. There are different kinds of dinosaurs as their are brids. Let's not be silly. You understand this.

I would be very careful in following the wisdom of men. You have been warned by the Lord. I suggest you listen to him very carefully, as I am trying to do. You only have one chance to get it right.

 

1. This is not evidence for evolution. This is evidence for a common designer.

2. This is variation, micro evolution. This does not provide evidence that we evolved from a rock into man. Evolutionist only give examples of variation to assume and imply the other 5 steps of evolution that must have taken place. Fact is, there is no evidence for evolution.

3. Again, you are taking variation and using your imagination how this could have evolved into entirely new species. This all taking place in fantasy land.

You gave the definition of the religion of evolution. You have faith that variation leads to new species...there is not one shred of evidence observed empirically that supports what happens in your imagination. You have been indoctrinated into this view.

Let me tell you what you must believe: You believe you came from a rock.


To come here with this reply in a thread pages long on evolution you assume that we simply do not understand evolution just because we don't believe in it. I understand evolution, enough to know it is agenda of Satan.

 

The Word of God has never been proven wrong. Never will. Foolish is the wisdom of man, and woe to them who imply God is a liar.

 

Learn every word in the bible --each and every word in the correct order--and their meaning--try and live by them- always according to their meaning,(take the dichotomies one by one and adhere to those which you decide fits best for you at the time you come upon them) and we/you still don't have a definitive answer as to the end of existance for humans after our present forms decline and return to dust. Definitive,I said. Yes,faith and hope abide,however it's difficult for me to ignore the human condition and believe that very many of us are very "godly" or under a caring god and are deserving of reconstruction in one form or another. Whether we'll be issued other forms than these very temporary ones we now inhabit ,would be interesting to know--if only we were supposed to know--or if it would be possible for someone to reverse a deconstruction ,return from the dead and pass a little knowledge on to "we who have not deconstructed yet". --------"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is ALL that's needed as we go thru our lives. No need for reams and reams of material and books and more books of more material that goes on and on and on. No need for endless arguements that go on and on and on.We're here-we live a while-we're gone. "Do unto others"-ect-covers it all. Forever. JMO.

 

Alright, then I realize I cannot make you believe. I won't post anymore on this, because I know it would be wasting my time. Also, I could show you charts, images, videos, etc, and you would still take a two thousand plus year old book's literal word over mine. By all means do so! It's your right after all.

So with this, I bid you adieu.

 

Thanx.

No, this does not show the age of the earth, it only shows ths length of time man has been on the earth.

Then according to your reasoning, Genesis 2:4 seems to say that 7/24 hour days (yom) were accomplished in one 24 hour day (yom).

Genesis 2:4 (KJV)
These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.

Okay?

 

The problem is not with the Word of God, as you say it will never be proven wrong.

The problem is with what some believe the Bible says and not with what the Bible actually says.

At one time some believed the Bible said that the Sun revolves around the Earth and yet the Earth revolves the Sun. Does that mean the Bible was wrong?

 

Why can't evolution fit with the God concept? Many jews have already accepted it why can't Christians? Am I trying to say that the evolution concept is 100 percent accurate? No of course not, we're still learning, and as human beings we will never stop learning. But the God concept is inherently flawed as well. Especially when you are looking into the Christian doctrines upon God. For instance did you know that the concept of Christ as a part of God goes directly against the ten commandments which many Christians are so quick to use? Just watch and listen for a few minutes here if you will.

Commandment #1: I the Lord am your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, the house of bondage: You shall have no other gods before me.

In saying that Jesus is akin to God even in simply being his son you are taking this very commandment and turning it on it's head and then spitting upon it. When a Christian prays, he doesn't pray directly to God as the Jews do, he prays through Jesus as an intermediary, thereby he is setting Jesus on a pedestal as though he were even with God in this way. This is a direct violation of the first commandment.

Commandment #2: You shall not make for yourself a sculptured image, or any likeness of what is in the heavens above or on the earth below, or in the waters under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them. For I the LORD your God am an impassioned God, visiting the guilt of the parents upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generations of those who reject Me, but showing kindness to the thousandth generation of those who love Me and keep My commandments.

When a Christian bows down before an image of the cross what else is he bowing down to than a "sculptured image, or any likeness of what is in the heavens above or on the earth below,". Even though the modern protestant cross no longer bears Jesus upon it's limbs it is still a direct symbol of him. Thus when you do this or when you partake of communion you are stating that this commandment too is beneath you.

Also let me ask you this, when and where in the bible does Jesus ever claim to be God or even the Son of God? I think that once you actually read the texts, preferrably the older the better, except the King James of course it has been proven unreliable far too many times, you will find that nowhere in the new testement does he even so much as state this. As a matter of fact the first to state this concept is Cephas or Peter and once he has said this Jesus simply replies "So you have said". This in and of itself is not an admittance but rather a evasive action which basically says "Peter you have said this but remember that I myself never did."

Next we must look at the fact that no where in the old testement is Hell mentioned, and while we're on this subject the only time satan is mentioned he is portrayed as a servant of God who is given the authority to tempt man to see how strong their faith in the Divine is. You will find this story in Job. Oh and please don't try to say the serpent is a reference to Satan, because if you wish to take that path I can show you directly from the original Hebrew scripture how it is not. Oh and neither will Lucifer work as Satan, which if you wish I can explain as well.

But wait if you will, would you believe that in the old testement Heaven is never mentioned as a place where men go when they die? When it is talked about Heaven is seen as a place for God and his angels alone to dwell.

Next let us look at your most sacred writings, the texts upon which your entire religion is based shall we? Of the four gospels which were included in the cannon which is the oldest? That would almost certainly be the Gospel of John. But when was this gospel written? It was written in 63-65 A.D. Ok so what you might say but think carefully please. The average lifespan of a man back in those times was no more than 40 years, which would mean that unless this John was a very lucky and very very very healthy individual he never even knew Christ. Then let us go to Luke, if you study the NT the only Luke mentioned was a disciple of Paul not Jesus. Which would mean that even if that were the Luke who wrote Luke he too never would have actually known Christ. What about Matthew or Mark? Well even though they may be texts on Jesus they were both written well over 70 years after his death, which means that they too couldn't have known him.

I am not trying to discourage anyone's faith, though if I know Christians, which I do being a pastor's son myself, this won't hamper many of you in your faith. I simply wish to show that the Christian doctrine has as many holes in it if not more than the theory of evolution. Peace n' love my friends.

 

Did you even bother to check the scientific sources I cited earlier, including some by devout Christians? By the way, I hope you're aware Russia is no longer Communist. Do you think you'd be killed or sent someplace bad in this country for challenging evolution? Then why haven't you? If you could provide an empirical theory with refutable hypotheses and a shred of evidence to back it up, I think you'd have no trouble arguing your case to the scientific community. Darwin's theory could be demolished by finding a single rabbit in the Cambrian. So far, no rabbits. Did you ever take a science course?

You're impervious to evidence and reasoned argument. You've convinced yourself that educated people are wrong and in league with the devil, unless they happen to agree with you, which is unlikely.

I didn't call Christianity mind crippling (I am a Christian)--only your literalist version of it. And there are plenty of us. Are you presumptuous enough to say that non-fundamentalists are not Christians. Where does it say that in the Bible? Saint Augustine said "When I understood literally, I was slain spiritually." Was he not a Christian?

I don't argue against God, only against ignorance. I do know in my heart that God exists, and try to give Him my complete devotion. Open your mind!

 

Rabbits floated in the flood.

Seriously, Hovind says that animals like clams and fish were already lower down (as in already in the water), that is why they are in the lower rocks, and more mobile or flying animals are found higher for that reason. Sheep can apparently float for days according to Hovind.

The longer this thread goes on, I am being convinced that rambleON is Hovind himself given some internet time in jail, or is Jack Chick.


Okie, you are right. When he is convinced that de-literalizing the Bible means Jesus never existed and neither does God there is zero wiggle-room.

Ramble, you have still not answered my question. If light has never slowed, if evolution is true and Genesis 1-11 is merely spiritual Truths, if the world was not created in 6 literal days...would you reject your faith in the Bible--or does is your faith in Jesus stronger? Even if you do not answer anything else in this thread answer this.