Stop Blaming America

I'm sorry, why is this post liked so much? I really don't understand. So people who demonize, let's just call it criticize, the USA must have a lack of history knowledge? Doesn't that all depend on the arguments and the specifics of what is demonized? People who diss the USA must not know all that stuff? Why not? Because if they know all that stuff there wouldn't be anything to diss? I don't get the logic of that post...

 

I'm referring to extremists. Whatever they say, one can sense they always fault the USA, and have no appreciation for the USA. That they start from a position of disdain for the USA is communicated through their words, tone, etc.

Some would call them the lunatic fringe.

Nothing is wrong with criticizing mistakes the USA makes. The extremists go much further than that.

 

I'm relatively new to this site, so I wasn't even referring to things said here. Which doesn't negate or lessen my point. Quite simply, much of today's "left" has no use for, nor respect for, the USA. They're self-marginalizing. It comes through in every thing they say and write. Their default position is that the USA is bad.

The turds at Occupy Oakland who tore down the US flag. (I supported Occupy in my state, demonstrating, etc.) Code Pink, which I hear, was founded by Marxist extremists. Etc. Etc.

 

Do you have any issues with code pink other than who you have heard started the group? They're the ones who protest against drone killings in the middle east and illegal detention at guantanamo, right?

 

Drones are a necessary evil. How could any US leader NOT use drones? The targets are religious zealots who want to kill Americans. Sure, their use sometimes has collateral damage, but when does war not?

All Code Pink is doing is pushing an agenda born in the minds of upper class women who dislike the USA. That their crusade against drones does not, and never will, resonate with Joe and Jane Public, isn't even considered by Code Pink's leaders. Those leaders are in love with their own stances. Most importantly, they would never invite truck drivers and beauticians to their parties.

 

If they were actually the only targets, I would agree with you, but there are far too many innocent people killed for it to be justified. Especially since so many of the victims are in countries that the US has no official military presence in.

 

I think that drones are probably better than the alternative, but you're never going to make your point if you keep making everything about America.

 

It's function a person in ruling office which determines the ethics of a leader. Whatever his politicization is is secondary to the concept of nature in his Office position. He must function, and only then he takes up points of view on, I think, just these monetary issues.:mickey:

 

The use of drones in itself is not where the evil lies. It's what is done with the drones

 

Eleven

Oh you’re not going to be another one of those people that is incapable of answering questions or addressing criticisms are you?

I mean your reply is just an evasion, which really does lessen what seems on the look of it an already fragile and deeply flawed argument.

Now please would you answer and address the questions and criticism raised -

But I would ask were treaties broken by past US governments and colonists? Were atrocities committed by US agencies? Have past American people and government done nothing that that could be seen as ‘wrong’?

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So if the Comanche were inhumane to the Apache, that makes it alright for any humans to be inhumane to other humans? You would like to live in a society where inhumanity to your fellow human beings was acceptable even allowed?

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So you believe in might is right? That if someone can take something from another by any means that’s acceptable?

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Oh yes it was political expediency but the problem here is that many come to the site seemingly extolling the virtues of the founding fathers without realising that they were just politicians

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So you don’t think blame should be given when blame is due? People make mistakes nations make mistakes, but only by discussing those mistakes can we ever hope of stopping the same mistakes being taken again.

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Can you please define what you mean by ‘working class’ and ‘upper class’?

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Are you claiming that people with relatives in the military are not (or should be) critical of government actions, because I’ve meet a lot of such people that have been very critical of government administrations. Even serving and ex-military can be critical?

Even if true the question is should they? As I’ve said shouldn’t blame be given when blame is due?

 

Eleven

So you had no evidence here for what you said?

But as ‘I’ve said it is pointless to examine the validity of your point when you refuse to answer questions or address the criticisms of that point, so we can actually examine if your point has any validity.

Just shouting ‘I’m right’ doesn’t make your viewpoint valid.

Oh I ask again [sigh] what is your definition of the ‘left’?

EVERYTHING they say – hell man don’t hold back LOL

I mean the utter bias and prejudice on display here is amazing – please man do you want to be taken seriously or not?
SO once again with feeling – who are ‘they’ how do you define ‘them’?

 

Well no, they're not inherently bad, just like a gun is not inherently bad.

But the way they've been used has been terrible, and has taken a huge toll on civilian life. If anything, I think that drone strikes in Pakistan, Yemen, and Afghanistan have created more enemies than they have taken out.

 

The problem with drone attacks is who is directing them.

There have been persistent rumours that tribemen are using them to settle scores over rivals and to make money. The US relies on ‘agents’ in the tribes of the region that are paid for information - so it actually pays to find ‘targets’ so it is not surprising that ‘targets’ are found. And what better targets to find that rival tribes and tribal leaders.

I believe they also rely on these ‘agents’ to tell them if the missions are a successful or not and that’s probably why there are such discrepancies been US and local reports with one side claiming terrorist deaths and the other civilian ones.

 

This was basically happening in Yemen, the president was giving the US bad information and having them kill undesirables for him, "by accident".

If you haven't watched the film "Dirty Wars", I think you'd really like it. It's on Netflix right now, or you can torrent it from The Pirate Bay. The book is very, very well written as well... but also very long and kind of a dry read for someone who does not have a significant interest in the topic.

 

As National Public Radio was boring me with talk of movies, I listened to talk radio today, and heard someone bemoan that tax dollars get used on entitlements, welfare, etc. I asked myself why these right wingers never talk about tax dollars going to the military industrial complex. Obviously, there is some gross failure among "progressives" and the "left".
Yup, those 2 yak about things most rational people dismiss; pacifism, the bad ole USA, etc. By concentrating on imperfections and mistakes in the War on Terror, you're just missing an opportunity to address waste in defense spending, and the rip-off of the taxpayer. In any military struggle, there will be mishaps, mistakes, etc. You can focus on them all you want, in an attempt to demonize the USA, but people won't listen. Sure, its perfectly alright to point out things such as Yemeni leaders giving Uncle Sam bad info so as to get their rivals zapped from the sky. Nothing wrong with pointing that out. What is wrong is when one focuses on such things constantly. It destroys the tone of every message you have.

 

I'm evading your evasion.

 

Notice I spoke of it being bad to romanticize Native Americans and to demonize the USA and colonists. I see radicals using history selectively, cherry picking mistakes and sins of Whites, only. Never did I say Whites never committed mistakes and did bad things. You read that into my post.

 

i've changed my mind. 'merica sucks

 

Eleven

But many people don’t romanticize Native Americans or demonize the USA but they do place blame where they think blame is due.

LOL - that is not just the preserve of ‘radicals’ in fact in the UK it has traditionally been a characteristic of the right and conservatives to cherry pick in order to play down the nasty side of British imperialism. In the US what political grouping usually try and play down American imperialism?

Actually I asked you a question(1) (that so far you have refused to answer) about if you thought that, I didn’t read it in I didn’t know.

OK so you are saying some people did ‘bad’ things are you saying those things shouldn’t be talked about?

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(1) why are you refusing to answer simple questions?

 

Perhaps we can all blame Sweden.

and let the Israelis have Detroit, perhaps they can make a go of it