Stop Blaming America

In utter disregard for fairness politic is shrewdness, tact, and cunning and these are not academic virtues.

 

Gas

Just another evasion trick then – unable to actually refute my criticisms you are trying to claim they must be wrong because I lack ‘an experiential viewpoint’

But if my arguments are supposedly so weak and lacking in understanding why is it that you and others cannot refute them in honest debate with rational and reasonable counter argument?

What single ‘topic’ are you talking about I’ve covered many – but remember this is a forum that is mainly concerned with US politic so the topics covered are likely in to cover US politics, I’d say that if you don’t want to discuss US politics then you are in the wrong place.

Again if by arguments are supposedly just some weak whining then why do you and others seem incapable of refuting them?

I’m a leftie and proud of it and have never tried to hide the fact.
And again if my arguments are just limp blaming then why do you seem unable to refute them?

As I’ve said - I post my arguments and criticisms openly and anyone can discuss them and address them or through reasoned and rational argument refute them.

But so often instead of doing that the right wingers bitch and snipe and moan – because in thread after thread they are incapable of refuting so many criticisms of their ideas

Shouting - Stop blaming America for everything- doesn’t make the criticisms go away it just further highlights that there right wing doctrines have no real counter arguments to criticism.

My motivation is to learn and entertainment, and I learn a lot and have some fun. I don’t think anyone can be put in a tidy little box, and make it clear that there are many shades of opinion but there are right wing and left wing views in politics and this is a forum to debate politics. It seems you clearly don’t like my criticisms of right wing ideology and that’s fine but put up some coherent counter arguments, don’t just bitch about it.

I’ve never claimed you are a member of a political party.

If someone holds a political viewpoint (or is a member of a political party) how can it be insulting to point that out? As I’ve said I’m a leftie and happy and comfortable with that and why wouldn’t I be, since I have left wing views. If someone has right wing views and proclaims them why would it be insulting to point that out – are they ashamed of their views and if so why do they continue to hold them?

 

[FONT=&quot]McFuddy[/FONT]

Thank you but I don't think this is about reality or fairness it seems to be about trying to dishonestly invalidate arguments through trickery because people don't seem able to refuted them honestly.

 

Well this was intended to be a parody thread, as already pointed out, and just poking you in the ribs a bit.
sorry, I should have realized that with the intensity with which some folks discus politics, there would be few that posses a sense of humor.


Oh well, at least a few folks got a chuckle out of it and "got it".

 

Gas

LOL Oh I ‘got it’ - you really don’t seem to like right wing ideas been criticised and the intensity of that dislike is clear to see from your posts.

And please don’t try and pull the wool over our eyes with that silly ‘I was just joking’ routine.

So are you going to run away again without answering any questions?

 

Yep

He ran away again without answering any questions?

 

Magic 8 Ball Saaays...

Not likely.

 

Oh I see - right wingers us a Magic 8 Ball toy to decide on their ideas – no wonder they can't defend them in any rational or reasonable way -

 

As I’ve said earlier shouldn’t blame be placed where blame is due?

I don’t believe America is to blame for everything – but some policies and ideas followed by some American administrations, political institutions and some Americans I believe are to blame for some problems in the US and around the world.

To repeat, people make mistakes nations make mistakes, but only by discussing those mistakes can we ever hope of stopping the same mistakes being taken again.

I never believed in that old saying ‘my country right or wrong’ I mean if blame is never proportioned then to me it just lets off those that do the wrong

 

They started.

 

The nail that stands proud gets the hammer.

 

Lol!

 

Where is that ^^ ?

Not so secret Chinese subversion.

 

In fact, its an old story. They have been preparing since a long time.

The poster above is from this article, in June 2010.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/LA08Ad01.html

Detroit is the place is it/ it was

 

Demonizing the USA shows:

A lack of knowledge about history, in my opinion. Those who diss the USA don't know that there never was a genocide against Native Americans equivalent to what the Germans did to all "undesirables". They romanticize Native Americans, unaware, for instance, that the Comanche were inhumane to the Apache. They think the USA stole Texas, unaware the Mexicans took it from the Comanche, who stole it from the Apache.

Or, perhaps, that the best of the founders couldn't have freed the slaves had they wanted to.

That 100 years ago, most of the planet was ruled by royalty of one form or another. Easy to make a case that the USA is inherently bad when one incessantly measures it against the standard of Utopia.

That the USA was the first attempt in human history to separate government from religion.

Hmmm.

I know working class folks tend to have relatives in the military, so to hear an activist hate on the USA makes me suspect an upper class background.

Or, an ideologue. If a person isn't the thinking, imaginative, free spirited type, they will latch on to an ideology. An ideology will demand they never see good in the USA. (An atheist friend tells me he's met several Marxists who were former Roman Catholics. He thinks they merely traded Catholic dogma for Karl Marx's. Likewise, it has been said that Che Guevara's politics were just a rehash of typical Latin American authoritarianism (Che was in charge of executions, and the regime persecuted gays, and stifled free speech.)

Well. Most importantly:

9,999 out of 10,000 people will tune out the entire message of anyone disrespecting the home team.

 

Forgive me, I attempted to add to your reputation, but clicked the wrong box. I can't find a way to undo it, so I'll try to make up for the mistake later when the opportunity arises.

I agree, and it appears that government has become the new religion, elevating ordinary humans to God-like positions of power which exceeds their capacity to exercise wisely.

 

Eleven

Have you evidence for this on the forum?

I’ve never said it (and I can’t recall anyone else saying that there was equivalence to Nazis German practices eg gas cambers).

But I would ask were treaties broken by past US governments and colonists? Were atrocities committed by US agencies? Have past American people and government done nothing that that could be seen as ‘wrong’?

Do they? Again I don’t think I’ve ever done it, but please show me where its been done on the forums?

So if the Comanche were inhumane to the Apache, that makes it alright for any humans to be inhumane to other humans? You would like to live in a society where inhumanity to your fellow human beings was acceptable even allowed?

So you believe in might is right? That if someone can take something from another by any means that’s acceptable?

Oh yes it was political expediency but the problem here is that many come to the site seemingly extolling the virtues of the founding fathers without realising that they were just politicians

AS I’ve noted before

the formers of these rules [the constitution] didn’t pluck them from thin air or from the hands of some omnipotent being. They are not sacred text but man made rules with all the fallibility that entails. These dictates of government conduct were picked over and scrutinised, manipulated and moulded, deals were struck, egos massaged and factions mollified.

Try reading Inventing a Nation: Washington, Adams, Jefferson by Gore Vidal

Here is a list of sovereign nations in 1910
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_1910

There are a lot more republics than you’d imagine and of course by then many of the ‘monarchies’ were either ‘constitutional monarchies’ or well on their way to being them with the monarch becoming basically a figurehead rather than ruling outright.

So you don’t think blame should be given when blame is due? People make mistakes nations make mistakes, but only by discussing those mistakes can we ever hope of stopping the same mistakes being taken again.

Can you please define what you mean by ‘working class’ and ‘upper class’?

And this doesn’t make sense are you claiming that people with relatives in the military are not (or should be) critical of government actions, because
I’ve meet a lot of such people that have been very critical of government administrations. Even serving and ex-military can be critical?

As people here know I dislike ideologies of all types be they religious or political but on this site the unquestioning ideology on show is mainly that of the right, I can point to thread after thread in which they are totally incapable of defending their ideas, please ask Indies as he’s one of those. He keeps promoting a lot of rubbish he’s never been able to defend rationally.

Even if true the question is should they? As I’ve said shouldn’t blame be given when blame is due?