Stoner Thought

not everything uses the sun for survival

 

AHAHAHAHAHA! That is the best analogy I have ever heard!

 

ALL organisms rely on the sun one way or another

 

Well, technically yes if every single atomic particle in your body had an energy flucuation high enough all at the exact same moment then yes theoretically you could... But it's not a reasonable chance, it would take billions time longer than the time our universe has existed.

 

Actually, chemoautotrophs don't.

 

^ hmm looked em up a bit, my chemistry stuff is kinda rusty, so Oxidizing of electron donating molecules seem complicated as fuck

 

Heh, well in a nut shell energy is originally made by autotrophs. Most are photoautotrophs, which use light from the sun to create their own energy, like plants for example. Then there are chemoautotrophs which are very specific bacteria which use chemicals to produce their energy.

 

how rare is that condition though? the description on wikipedia seems like it's only somthing which exists early in a molecular form

 

all cell reactions exist on a molecular form. or a macromolecular form which is just a big molecular form.

its not so much a matter of chemical division as it is biological.

all life gets its energy from somewhere.

plants are photo-autotrophs because they make their own energy products (sugars) from light (photo)

other types are heterotrophs that get their food from other organisms. for example, humans. we use sugar, and sugar is made in plants. thus we are chemo-heterotrophs.

now, if we ingested some sort of reactive substance that reacted inside our bodies to leave new energy products, we would be chemo-autotrophs.

the reason it is rare is because most substances that are reactive enough to supply us energy without extra effort of our own, are unstable and break down naturally.

however there is one source of energy that is pretty abundant, and that is on metals that are corroding. when metal rusts, electrons are released. this reaction can be harnessed by bacteria that coat and engulf the reaction.

the equivelant is that when light hits a plant, electrons are released among the chlorophyll, and the plant harnesses these electrons.

 

you must be unaware of the abundace of life in the deep ocean where sunlight does not penetrate, it is pitch black down there and organisms find a way to survive just fine

 

Well if theres no sun, theres no water + tides.

 

isnt there a whole range of species that survive off of thermal vents on the ocean floor?

 

Explain your self

 

yea, this is probably the level i'm at in thinking on the subject, all of what u said i've easilly understood, but much further then this i'm lost

you dont think the Sun at one point influenced the growth, or evolution of these organisms? i wont go as far to go on about tides, but the sun definatly effects water tempature

 

yes the sun is necessary for all life on earth. without the sun, the earth would eventually freeze and chemical reactions would slow to a near halt.

 

ah, what a satisfying thread to read

But one question: Why couldn't the thermal vents be a suitable place for life to develop? Of course the orgin of life is still very mysterious, but if you go by the theory that life developed as Darwin said,"In a warm little pond", then wouldn't the heat vents provide the warmth that is needed for the production of life? I apologize for my ignorance, but apart from light the sun only provides heat, and we have said that life can survive without light, so is light necessarily a requirement for the development of the organic compounds from which life is supposed to have developped?

 

the earth could not contain it's inherent core temperature if it wasnt constantly bombarded with more energy than it is letting out to space.

thus the sun is crucial for earth to sustain life. the earth's core does not produce heat, it circulates and stores heat. that heat eventually escapes, and if left to tumble through space, would emit its energy slowly until it runs out. so, as the heat escapes through thermal vents, life may occur, but it would not be able to leave the thermal vents (only source of heat), and would slowly lose the energy they need.

in order for life to perpetuate, it needs a constant source of energy from somewhere, because life absorbs energy and the only way to get that energy out of life is to kill it. but life also must grow. eventually, dead life turns into an energy source that is efficient to use (fossil fuels). but no life form survives long enough to use this to perpetuate itself.

a constant source of energy is necessary. this is the sun. humans are stupid not to use more of the sun's energy. we will never see the end of it.

 

Idk, i just cant and wont believe 10 billion years can create whats on earth right now.

 

But I thought the Earth's core wasn't heated from the sun. The sun's energy doesn't penetrate far enough. The real heat came from the enormous pressure of gravity pushing on the Earth, creating large amounts of friction and thus heat.

And I still don't understand why, if both the chemicals needed for producing energy and heat are availible in large supplies in the thermal vents, life couldn't develop.

 

energy escapes the earth. but energy also goes into teh earth. the sun doesnt heat teh earths core directly but it prevents the energy just dissipating.

anyway i dont think the point here is what was needed for life to originally come about, this solar business is about the way the sun fuels the life that is all over teh earth, not the simplest life that could be anywhere but not progress to something of appreciation such as human beings