Star Wars: The Last Jedi’

Lol You are confusing things. The flaws you named are not what i ment. I like it when people discuss them (at least as much when the opinions on them differ from mine). A lot of the conclusions you made however are not just about those flaws.

Sigh...

 

First off I haven't been sittin' here callin' anyone stupid or claiming I am more intelligent. Taking the time to point out logical inconsistencies in a film is just that. Each person decides on their own wether those inconsistencies matter to them personally. Please do not put words into my mouth.

Secondly I have not been screaming. I'm sure there is some sort of internet etiquette code of which I am unaware bit quite frankly I couldn't give a damn about internet etiquette. If you are referring to my one use of all capital letters then no that wasn't a scream that was simple a point of emphasis.

Last but certainly not least thank you for finally actually tryin' to formulate a rational rebuttal pertaining to TLJ. It's good to see the debate actually get up & running instead of all this idiot nonsense thus far. When I get done with this firepit I'm building I'll sink my teeth into it straight away.

Every conclusion I have offered thus far as been solely based upon those flaws but ok. I'm tired of arguing pointlessly. Unless you actually want to discuss this film let's just leave the conversation here.

 

The whole 'everyone who likes this movie is stupid' thing is heavily implied in posts like this:

You're just trying to make it seem like only fucking morons would enjoy this movie that you didn't even understand on anything but the most superficial level.

Seriously, what do you do for a living? What are the big accomplishments in your life that we should all be so envious of? I am dying to hear about your Jesus Ghandi Hitler lifestyle. But since your time is so valuable, maybe you should just get your disciples to respond next time... I would hate to think of how many lives wouldn't be saved and how many places in this world wouldn't be improved because I had dragged you into a pointless online argument about 'bright lights and ooooooooooh pretty colors!'.

 

Fellas, fellas, please. Maybe we can all just agree that Empire Strikes Back is the best and leave it at that.

 

If calling a film you like drivel makes you feel as though you too must be drivel that is your problem not mine. Go find someone else to have your feelings hurt by I'm done.

 

Haven't you heard...........
THE LAST JEDI IS THE BEST THERE EVER WAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now that was internet shouting

 

You implied that the only reason anyone would like this movie is because they are simple. You are being a pretentious twat and you're too pretentious to admit it.

I don't know how anyone could read your comments and think otherwise.

 

On that we can agree

 

I propose a lightsaber duel at dawn

 

But that same platform gives the author creative license to allow someone like Captain Rae Sloane of the Star Destroyer Ultimatum
to eventually rise to the rank of Grand Admiral and become leader of the Galactic Empire,

 

Nah, that' just emphasis.

 

Simple is as simple does.

Well dagnabbit there I go again screwing up internet ethics

 

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

 

Time you looked in a mirror kid. Thus far you haven't been able to offer a single coherent rebuttal for any points I have offered for debate in this thread. The best you can do is sling around petty, childish, ignorant insults & spout incoherent gibberish that you think sounds smart or at least smart assed. Now I have tried my best to be polite & take your obviously lackluster character in stride but I am done.

You claim that TLJ deconstructs heroism & reevaluates it & leadership. To this I say hog wash & here is why. What hero is deconstructed & reevaluated? Luke Skywalker? Nope, all that Mr. Johnson does with Luke is completely flips his character on it's head. There is no growth that explains Luke's cynical shift all we get is oh nephew bad with dark side must kill. This is not a development for Luke it isn't even a reevaluation of his ethics it's just a simple reversal of his character in order to tarnish it & hamstring the ideals which Luke Skywalker stood for. Even Mark Hamill who lived & breathed Luke Skywalker for nearly 40 years said this & yet you claim to grasp the character he was better than him.

Now onto the next, what of Rey? Is Rey a heroine? Does she exhibit any heroic qualities? It may surprise you but I must say yes. She is the archetypal blank slate reluctant hero. Thrust into a world she doesn't understand forced to contend with powers that she shouldn't be able to succeed against. All with the face & body of the everywoman so all can easily relate. However Rian dropped the ball with Rey in TLJ. He spent so much time subverting the expectations of the audience that he didn't bother to flesh her out at all. The Rey we see at the end of the film is the same Rey from the end of TFA aside from being even more powerful & having a crush on Kylo that could make her question the dark side. No reason was offered as to this sudden reversal of feelings for Kylo, we as the audience were just supposed to accept it & move on.

I'm not even going to bother evaluating Finn or Rose. Suffice it to say there was no character development there either. Just more subverted expectations

Who in this film showed any sort of good leadership qualities? Not Leia, she put the entire fleet into a no win situation because she was too busy stoking her newfound god complex. Every order she gave was tactically unsound & ill planned. Enough said, this statement applies to Holdo as well. The only reason that any of the rebellion escaped was because the Empire was made into incompetent bumbling fools who also had no solid grasp of tactics.

Everything else you spouted in that comment was incoherent babble. Please elaborate coherently or don't expect a response. For the record parroting something you heard on YouTube a great argument does not make. Can you even back up such statements? Doubtful if your normal approach is any indication.

I completely grasp the concept of subversion of expectations. There have been many films made where this concept was used well such as Inception. The Last Jedi just doesn't fit into that category. As shown it is nothing more than poorly written swill farmed out for monetary gain alone.

Now please either formulate a reasonable response or go whine somewhere else

 

Man, we have some weird dudes here (HF) not just this thread

 

You're done, so you keep typing?

Oh wait, I get it. You mean that the brilliant points you are about to make are going to fill me with so much shame over ever having challenged you that I will cry myself to sleep tonight, right? This is you saying I need to prepare myself to bear the full brunt of your intelligence!

Well, okay.

Every arc was about heroism, you just didn't get it.

Poe-- heroism vs leadership
Finn-- the noble cause vs self-preservation
Rey-- heroic heritage vs heroic individuality
Luke-- heroic reputation vs flawed reality

The stable kids needed the legend of Luke to inspire them to fight for what they know is right... Luke's arc was complete when he looked past his failures and became a symbol that would inspire others to fight against tyranny. There is nothing cynical or out of character about that... nothing.

Luke's 'attack' on Ben was not a shift in his character, and it wasn't the same scenario as Luke/Vader. 'Would you kill young Hitler, knowing what he would become?' is not the same as 'would you try to redeem old Hitler, after he did what he did?'. He would have prevented a lot of suffering by killing Kylo, and yet still managed to restrain himself.

You didn't get it.

She isn't the same.

Throughout TFA and TLJ, she had been looking for father figures to tell her what to do.

By the end of TLJ, after losing one father figure and being disappointed in the other, she has realized she needs to take the initiative and find her own path.

There was no reversal of feelings. Kylo was offering her exactly what she had been looking for in Han and Luke, but she turned him down. The dark side is seductive because it preys on what you want the most... it wasn't an actual romance, that's absurd.

Again, you just didn't get it... and instead of having humility and telling yourself you didn't get it, you blamed the film-- which is why you only saw 'oooooh pretty colors'. Then you went a step further and called everyone who liked the film stupid as well. It's pretty unbelievable.

Nope.

Finn starts the movie wanting to leave the resistance.
By the end he has realized the value of being part of something bigger than yourself (whose noble virtues were conveyed to him via Rose), and he proudly declares himself to be 'rebel scum'.

You didn't get it.

Holdo's plan was fine. It was identical to Leia's, which was actually brought up when Poe was in the room. What sabotaged it was Poe's reckless attempt to be a hero. You didn't get it.

Dunning–Kruger effect - Wikipedia

Yeah, that was all there was for you-- subversion of expectations and pretty colors.
The rest was too difficult for you.

 

how many good waves can you surf in the time it takes to watch a movie??

 

answer: A bunch

 

daisy
I believe one would have to be a critic to do so
which is not a bad thing mind you

 

Yeah, I don't know why people would waste time actually thinking about things when they can just criticize people who think about things.

And before the inevitable pile-on where everyone tells me I'm a loser for typing out my thoughts on a movie, well... what if I said whatever it is you like to spend time on is a waste of time? How would you feel then?

It isn't about getting people to agree, it's about discovering or articulating things that I find interesting. Analyzing pop culture/art, identifying meaning in it... isn't a waste of time. I like ideas, I like how they connect in a movie, I like analyzing these things and finding deeper meanings, trying to understand things in new ways.

If it's not your thing and you just want to go surfing and get stoned and not think about things, fine... that's probably the reason we're not friends and never will be, and if you don't want to participate in a conversation with me, then just stay away. I promise I won't give a shit if you don't.