Spitting on Vietnam Soldiers

This is going back a bit but:
how can you say you were protecting a freedom when you were FORCED into war, that doesn't seem very free to me.
I believe you should still blame the soldiers for their actions
to prove my point I'll use a story, let's say:
A man raised his son to hate a certain type of people and said that they should be killed (let's say white people because I know I'd be yelled at for any other race) and later in life that son kills a white person. Who do you blame? You blame the father for raising the son like that but you also blame the son because he actually performed the action.

I'm with skip:
WAGE PEACE ON THE WORLD

 

This looks like a good place to start http://www.veteransforpeace.org/

 

Funny how warmhands420 wanted this thread closed as soon as he saw that he was losing, and now has disappeared. Glad to see this thread still open, I like where its going. Thanks especially to Skip for your posts and the excellent points you made.

 

can you blame him? he is probably disgusted. do you think that war was easy on him? like it comes just naturally to him to kill people and fear for his life every second that he is over there? if there is anyone that wants peace, it is the soldier. he's been in war. he's most likely killed, most likely had friends killed, seen familes torn apart, seen it all. and yet you demonize him with hate speech, like he is some sort of machine that has no soul. please give me a break. he's been through it first hand, and if there is anyone in this thread that knows about peace and war, love and hate, it is him.

 

Oh please. grow up and face reality. We all have to... He ran off. To me that admits defeat. You always have to come along and ruin the fun...
ok, so anyway, getting back on topic....

 

grow up and face reality?

give me a fucking break we are talking about a thread here. there is no defeat. there is no "winner" or "looser". it's an internet forum.

wow I posted my opinion on things sorry I ruined the fun. I just think it is disgraceful that people act as if veterans and soldiers are robots that have no soul, yet they know more about war and peace than you ever will.


yes getting back on topic, what exactly was that again?

 

oh boo hoo, the internets is serious business.
Here's the deal. warmhands420 made his argument, and everyone else made theirs. Inevitably he was proven wrong, and has disappeared since. I would say he lost... he lost the debate and ran off. I thought a soldier never runs from battle?

 

I would imagine he left because he probably felt you were insulting the memories of friends he shared both good times with as well as the most dark of all possible times. Friends he risked his life for and friends that risked their life for his, some of which undoubtedly gave their lives in the process. People who have been thorugh such experiences don't want to have the memories of such friends and comrads insulted. You may strongly disagree with that war, but there are other legitimate opinions about it other than your own. You must understand that, even if you don't agree. There is no doubt in my mind that all forms of American resistance to the expansion of communism resulted in the fall of the USSR and the at least temporary end of the expansion of communism. I fully understand that you may not agree that the result was a good thing.

As for Iraq, I would think that if you can justify the overthrow of any leader due to atrocities, Sadam would qualify. There is also not much doubt that Sadam's internal Iraqi atrocities were not why we invaded Iraq. The reasons we invaded Iraq were false. There is also not much doubt that the war has been handled badly. Lastly, I don't care much for Iraqis. For that reason, I don't like the idea of Americans dying for Iraqis. From a purely humanistic viewpoint, I would think that Americans giving their lives to free a people from a ruthless dictator and giving them the gift of democracy would be a very desirable idealistic endeavor. I just don't think any Iraqis are worth any American lives.

 

he was "proven" wrong? I must have missed that post.....

 

What i'm saying is this:
I don't have much a problem with people who went to war against their will.
What I have a problem with is this "I killed the japs / commies" pride where despite the fact that the government forced them, despite the fact that they really didn't want to go but went anyway, despite the fact that they wre bogus wars, despite the fact that the government and the country turned their back on them...
they still defend what they did; the fact that they protected and obeyed this government that royally fucked them over.... they're in denial of the fact that yes, they're life was fucked up because the government forced them to fight. They pretend to be proud of it, or are in total denial that the government fucked them over.
I also have a bit of a problem with the people who didn't want to go but gave up resisting.
What happened was nothing to be proud of. It should have never happened. it was wrong. We were not in danger. The USA attacked and killed innocent people, women and children. They herded the sheep and took them to war, played with their lives like pawn in a chessgame, and not the pawns, broken and forgotten, pretend they were protected the country.
FACE IT; the US took innocent lives. These soldiers were just trained killers... brainwashed.

 

they aren't brainwashed. why do you attribute stupidity/ignorance to them, when they know so much more about this than you do? you think they haven't researched all this shit, you think they dont know what went on? you think you are telling them something new that they have never heard before? they WENT TO WAR. it matters to them SO much more than it matters to you.

and what war are you talking about that there was no danger to the US? you talk about japs. are you saying we should have stayed out of WWII?

I dont think they are "proud" of killing. it isn't the killing or the bloodshed or the war that they are proud of. they are proud because they did something that no one else wanted to do, and they did all for you. i know war is wrong, but it happens. we need to try and change this, but I think we will never completely stamp it out. these people, brainwashed or not, really and truely believed they were fighting for a good cause, and most of the time their were correct in that belief. if you have a problem with war, dont blame the soldiers. they aren't the ones who make the decision to invade. they are the ones that get stuck with the brunt of things, and we can't even imagine how hard it is on them.

 

I just got tired of listening to the same old garbage. You haven't won anything, you only proved that if you scream loud enough long enough that people will get tired and go away. You didn't prove anything except that you are a closed minded lot and that free speech is reserved for those who agree with you. You arguments are all based on emotion and false history.
Thomas Jefferson said that if man could live together in peace without the need for laws and government (and the military) don't you think he would have been doing so.
I don't need or want your approval or forgiveness. I served when called and stood with others who I will not dishonor by bending to your twisted ideas of what happened before you were born.
When I answered a post I took it point by point and no one ever wrote back with anything to disprove what I said. It was all opinion no fact. Like arguing with children not debating an adult.
I am removing my posts from this site because it is not a free speech forum as advertised and the rules are arbitrary, they can be changed to suit the mobs opinion. Next time you find yourself in harms way, call a hippy.
The backlash from the hippy revolt at the 68 convention put Nixon in the white house. All of the freedoms we lost are your fault. My reference is the 2007 documentary on hippies. Go to History.com and see for yourself.

 

neodude1212 we were not brainwashed, few of us thought we would see home again. I said before that no man in his right mind enjoys taking a life. But I will not be shamed into agreeing with the anti's that I did anything wrong. Yes at the war crimes trials it was established that following orders was not a defence. I was never given an unlawful order. Whether something was immoral or unjust was a matter of opinion, and opinion will not stop them from executing you for disobeying a lawful order.
Its easy to judge people when their only criteria is their own ignorance.
Your right there is a difference between being proud of serving and the things we were called to do.
They wouldn't leave us in peace then and now they are starting up again. I can feel the heat from their hate, it has them in a rabid state.
I bet that not one of them knows how we got involved in VietNam. They think Nixon (wrong president) woke up one morning and threw a dart at the world map an said "VietNam here we come.

 

War proves two things.

Who is left alive.

Who is left dead.

Vietnam did nothing, except spark a revolution. No longer did people do what their government said for them to do, without asking questions. No longer were drugs for phsycos, No longer was a death on the battlefield a death of bravery, it was a death that proved no worth, and served no purpose, because the purpose of the battle and the the war itself served no real purpose.

The 58,000 dead. Is just a number, until you speak to the family, or the dead soldiers loved ones. He will not be replaced, His death is called a sacrifice for his country, and he is commended for it.

Yes, mourn the lost innocent, but why they were killed, and to what purpose it served, is the answer that cannot be found, because there was none.

Hope this helps

Peace.

 

Anyone who has a list of requirements for the vets to put this to rest is full of themselves to the max. We didn't need your self righteous approval then or now. Nothing you say can change history and laying a guilt trip on people only serves to inflate your ego, careful, you must be getting close to bursting by now.
Its in the memory of one I lost to that war that I will continue to resist your blind hatred of anyone who served. Approval? We don't need your stinking approval!

 

Im with you man.

It's totally ignorant to condemn and talk shit about what you dont even understand.

 

Uhmm... they did this killing of women and children all for me??

Not for me, maybe for you.






My Lai massacre, 1968

 

I don't need to check history I was in it, you and Skip need to go get a damn room together and read books, because that is all you know about life, have fun together. And that machine Gun I was holding was my way to live. How many babies did I kill NONE unless they were armed and trying to kill me, the enemy was not that defined, let me see black uniforms bear feet, no uniforms, NVA uniforms pick one but if armed and coming at you what the hell are you going to do. Resist the draft WTF just what do you think we were donig in the street protesting ? And once your number was called resist, LEAVE my country, go to prision, spend my life trying to find ways to stay out. Don't forget we thought that war would go on forever, so don't preach about thing's you don't know shit about. Neither of you is worth it. I don't know why I bother with this crap. It's good to talk after the fact or from a far like you two. I am appalled that you would blame the cannon fodder that we were for anything we were forced to go and that is it. So go read some more dumb ass books and think yourself hip. Where were the two of you when I was in the street trying to make a difference and stop the maddness, why I guess you were reading books. Have fun with yourselves.

Peace

 

Hmmm. I guess, for a "proud" vet like you, the killing of women, children, civilians is merely a matter of opinion...

Just curious, how many women and children in Vietnam, did you proudly raped, killed and tortured, or is this just another one of those "matters of opinion"?

Civilian Killings Went Unpunished
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vietnam6aug06,0,6350517.story


"The files are part of a once-secret archive, assembled by a Pentagon task force in the early 1970s, that shows that confirmed atrocities by U.S. forces in Vietnam were more extensive than was previously known."

 

He killed no women or childern, if he had to kill it was the enemy, women and children were known to strap gernades to themselves or did you miss that chapter in your dumb ass books, because you have no first hand knowledge, now do you just hear say, troll

Peace