Spitting on Vietnam Soldiers

I have a couple questions.

Hypothetically speaking, let's suppose the young (young? Due to the Army having trouble meeting enlistment goals, you can now enlist in the Army up to age 42), anyhow, the young people are convinced to stop joining. If that could be done, there'd be no reasonable chance of re-starting the draft. This would all mean no more military, after all, no soldiers = no military. My first question is, what about the militaries of all the other countries of the world?

Seems to me that at that point, it'd be too late.

Second question: If the strongest nation on Earth has a standing military, should it not be used to stop genocide (Rwanda, Darfur,etc.)? Seems to me that IF the strongest, richest nation had a military that came to the aid of the potential victims, the soldiers would not be killing children, but preventing it.

It also seems to me that blaming soldiers for how they are used is like blaming a tool for how it is used. Because, let's face it, that's what the military and those in the military are - tools. I too was drafted, & I have two sons (and they have many friends). I have actually, physically, stepped between them and recruiters (btw, trolling in Wal-mart). At those times I have used the tool metaphor and gotten the recruiters to admit that no matter what promises are made, as soldiers(or sailors, etc), they would in the end be used how ever the commanders wanted.

No, I think the problem is with those using the military tools, and the fault for that is with the people who could and should be informed voters, but aren't. In my opinion, the non-informed voters are who should be reviled, figuratively spit upon, and who should be made to relize what they're doing (well, not doing) is bad & wrong.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Scant mercy to be sure. What would it take to overthrow the system, how would it be replaced...infastructure, institutions...what would we do with millions of fat, apathetic citizens who don't want the status quo changed? And the rich eletists who, in fact, pull most of the strings, how do we deal with them. Can we win them over, appeal to their sense of decency, humanity, can we convince them to step down from their status as American Royalty? I've often thought about what it might take to reshape something as big and unwieldy as this country is...never have come up with any asnwers myself.

 

You can't deal with the rich eletists. You could never convince them that anything is good other than more money. They will not stand for or allow any sort of change that would in fact damage their money grubbing lifestyle. Take for instance anyone who might have an idea that would use less fuel in a car or for transportation...there is far too much money in war and protecting oil reserves and oil fields in foriegn countries. If you have a good idea that might compromise the earning potential of one of those corporate fat cats; you are simply paid off for your silence or you just stop being. You can't fight it and you can't beat it. You can only live with it while the rich get richer and the poor get poorer......and the folks who try to have a voice get squelched ! As I said....WAR MEANS REVENUE ! Corporations that produce anything remotely involved in the vast war machine are loving what's going on right now. While the government goes trillions of dollars into debt....YHEY MAKE BILLIONS ! As for the soldiers...It doesn't matter whether you enlisted or where drafted....you are a pawn ! You do what you are told when you are told and if there is a fall to be taken for something bad....do you really the higher ranking will take that fall ? So why spit on a pawn....it's like shouting at the devil....nothing will come of it, except that the person doing the spitting is showing their hatred, as I said in an earlier post on this thread. And I suppose that everyone has hatred of some kind....but the spitting on a soldier (pawn) is seriously mis directed hatred. Think about it. Peace and Love !

 

Overthrowing the system does not have to mean replacing it. The system can be overthrown from within. As far as the apathetic citizens and the rich elitists, the "American Royalty", how do we deal with them and can we win them over... we don't deal with them and we don't worry about winning them over. I too have been thinking about this and I've come up with a possible solution and at least part of the plan to bring about the solution. It's all totally peaceful & legal & would work, but getting into that strays too far from the subject of this thread. Plus talking about workable solutions & plans isn't something that enough folks around here are interested in.

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Thats one reason I encourage kids to get involved in the political process. The only chance I see for sucessful change is from within. Maybe a third party, maybe someone like Obama or a viable woman candidate. I agree with your idea about the military...it could be used for a great force of good too, but sure as hell not with the current mindset in DC. Maybe you should start a new topic and share your thoughts on the possiblity of change. I've heard that revolution stuff since the 60's but never heard an articulate plan. Probably one reason why the "revolution" failed...nobody knew what the hell it was or what it looked like.

 

If kids stop enlisting then we start drafting. What's the difference?

 

A soldier is a man or woman who has put his or her life on the line for the better of the country. They don't set policy, they don't set rules.
A child molester is just a child molester.
On the one hand you say o no here comes the draft we must stop it. On the other you want no kids to enlist (which forces a draft).
Thoughts?

 

Agreed. I am appalled by the apathy, especially here.

 

That "Revolution stuff" from the 60's was very well articulated and put into written form. There were alot of people that were prepared to carry it out. But when you can only manage to raise two out of ten people out of their comfort zone; nothing is going to happen. It doesn't matter a crap how good the plan is. If everyone isn't on board and on the same page; you might as well be barking at the moon ! I recall that the people that spoke the loudest about how "revolution stuff" wouldn't work were the ones ducking the issues the most. There are two old sayings I'm sure all have heard...."The squeaky wheel gets the grease" and "Money talks" Well, the squeaky wheels shouting revolution won't work had already been greased...and the money talked to them. You tell me I'm not correct in this ! Peace and Love....that part is still a good idea !

 

Refresh my memory please, what were the specific plans for revolution, or refer me to where I can read this. It may well have existed but I never came across it. Your right in that , if every one isn't on board and on the same page nothing is going to happen. Maybe thats why it didn't happen,communication did'nt carry the message far enough or fast enough...who knows. I lived in rural southern Illinois then and now, it's an isolated place and its entirely possible the message didn't get through. One of the things I most noticed in that period of time was divisiveness, sometimes based on ideology, sometimes because of location, sometimes it was as cheap and petty as personality types...."you ain't as cool as I am" sort of thing. Now in an era of instant communication things might work better. In truth, having just left the military in the late 60's after having been drafted, I really didn't want to be involved in a bloody revolution. There needs to be an alternative or we'll end up with the same senseless chaos that bush created in Iraq. My decision for revolution was to follow a spiritual path outside the dogmas of mainstream religion. I made a carefull, conscious decision to dedicate my life to kids who had no homes, no families and often had no hope save for an institution. That was 35 years ago, I still follow that path actively. I have adopted and raised 7 kids, mentored dozens and provided temporary homes for who knows how many. It's been a great "get poor quick" scheme in terms of dollars. In terms of creating healthy kids who have awareness and sensitivity to others, it's been rich beyond belief. Some of my kids have now adopted kids of their own. One of my youngest has great potential for leading others and a social consiousness that crosses race and class to effectively communicate a need for responsible, compassonate change. I have looked for years to find a forum where I could talk with others from that era who have followed a path consistent with the values of Peace and Love that were guiding principles then. As a returning soldier, I was never spit on...I was derided and looked down on as "damaged goods" by many. Not because I believed in the military or the slaughter we were involved in, simply because many people had a them or us mentality just like bush does. Frustrating as hell to feel isolated and rejected while still maintaining a sense of whats right. I hope such a place as this might be a forum for exchange of ideas, communication, time will tell.

 

Bless you for your work with children. My wife and I do "Kinship fostering" and we mentor children too...also with Big Brothers/Big Sisters. You're right...it is a get poor quick scheme, but what a better way to get poor is there ! I hope that the loveless children that we have shown compassion and love to make something of themselves and this planet....and peacefully ! Bloodshed is useless ! You are right...there is a better way ! Peace and Love !

 

Thanks skip ! You saved me some searching through my archives of protests I was a part of and literature that I have read on the subject at hand. I knew it was there and had read many of the articles you mentioned, but I wasn't sure I could put my finger on them quickly. I recently watched a very interesting speach on C-span regarding the Black Panthers, by the founder. But I am embarrassed that I cannot remember his name at this very moment. It was a very good bit of info on what exactly the Black Panthers were doing as compared to the lies the local and federal governments were waging against them.

 

(I know this was like 60 pages back, but...)
Wow, you really seem to know what your talking about

 

The Black Panther Party was founded in Oakland, California by Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale in October 1966. On August 22, 1989, Newton was shot and killed.

That's what Hitler did, in propaganda terms, it's called, "The Big Lie"

btw: The phrase["The Big Lie"] was also used (on page 51) in a report prepared during the war by the United States Office of Strategic Services in describing Hitler's psychological profile:

"His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."

Sounds like someone now living in the White House....

Peace,
poor_old_dad

 

Was arrested in "74" for protesting in front of a recruiting station. Was released to my parents who drove me back to the recruiting station to continue if anyone had picked up the rally. No one had, so they took me home and we looked through the paper to see what else we could get into. I said a ways back that I remember being at an airport to protest the war, but there was no hippy spitting going on just words. Anyway, why spit ? You can wipe spit away, but if your words are powerful enough, they will never be forgotten ! Peace and Love !