Spitting on Vietnam Soldiers

Ban me then if you want to...heres a news flash for you...I didn't sign up...I'm old enough that I got drafted. If you didn't espouse spitting on soldiers, then my apology. Sure seems like a lot of people defending the idea of spitting on soldiers though. I'm still appalled at the attitude of blaming the victims and these kids(soldiers) are victims. These are our kids, brithers sisters parents and friends, wrong to sign up???Yeah, in my opinion they are but to treat them like dirt is stupid and wrong headed. You got a forum here where you could do some valuable education and outreach. Tell me how you want to engage these kids who may have made a mistake...tell me how to treat them. Again, if you don't advocate sppitting on kids(soldiers) then my apology is in order and you have it. You still feel like you wanna ban me go ahead, it your choice. Maybe the one thing that is obvious is that we both have very strong feelings on an issue that is critical to the health and future of this society.

 

Skip...what if there were no more "willing" participants out there just joining up for money or glory. What do you think would be the outcome ? I don't think it would end any war...it would just bring back the draft. The politicians would still be just as eager to send "drafted " kids to their deaths. What then ? Would the same go for the drafted ones, going against their will, when it comes to getting spat upon when they return.
I have to say that I don't agree regarding spitting not equaling hate, regardless of whether you know the person or not. Case in point is the whole mess in Isreal and Ireland. Those folks spit on the opposing side out of hatred.....and they don't know any of them any more than you or I. Am I way off base here ?

 

I won't publicly renounce being a soldier but I sure as hell will tell any kid I can what a god awful mistake it is to join the military. Do I have pride in having once been a soldier...nope...it was just a part of life that happened and I really had little control over it at the time. I was a young, dumb farm kid who had only ever seen soldiers in the light of WWII. A war that ultimately ended a great evil though there was plenty of evil for all sides to be ashamed of. I have legally adopted and raised 7 sons. I have threatened recruiters who have attempted to spread their lies to my kids. I have made clear to my kids that the military is a vicious machine that grinds kids into dead meat for the benefit of fat rich old men. I allowed my 13 year old son to see the pictures you posted of the war dead... As I hoped it would, it shocked him...took the glory out of the soldier thing that a lot of young males experience. Now I'm working on my grandkids. I have been a mentor for countless kids over the years of my professional career and you can bet I did my damnedest to help them consider alternatives to the military. I have also spent countless hours dealing witn Nam Vets whose PTSD has destroyed their live's.
What I feel we need is a viable Rite-of-Passage with service to the country. We need to help kids "own" our country in a healthy positive manner. From addressing environmental needs, community needs, some kind of service to the country has great value both to self esteem for the kid and to the nation. Theres where we make a differnence. I will never tell a kid who has been a soldier he was wrong...that is the individuals responsibilty, not mine. My responsibility to to help incorporate them back into their life in a positive manner.

 

What about talking to people about getting involved in shaping politics, what about having kids ask the politicians to stop the pointless slaughter. Why not have a polictical forum here that encourages kids to get involved right now...today. A forum that gives e-mail addresses and contact info for each of our 50 states, for our territories. Links and addresses to Senators, congressman, candidates for office. Why not provide links to political contacts thoughout the world so kids all over can ask the question...why do you want to kill me old man? Is there any way for kids from Iraq, Iran, Afganistan to communicate here? Any way for one kid to ask another...Why would you want to kill me? Why can't they ask, ya wanna go play soccer? wanna hang out? wanna be my buddy? Wish to hell that had been there all those years ago when I came back in a state of confusion, shame, anger at having been betrayed by every institution that claimed to be part of my life. Anger because all those institutions had just done their damnest to get me killed or to have me kill some kid I'd rather be friends with. Listen, to anyone who takes the time to read this, don't spit on a kid. Communicate with them, reach out for them, love them, cause they are part of us.

 

To think that a 20 (whatever) year old returning from war isn't still a kid is wrong. He is still a kid who has had everything he once held as sacred and true destroyed. He is the victim of lies, deceit and neglect. He may have committed great wrongs but under what circumstance. How did it come to pass he ended up in such circumstance? Perhaps more than ever that kid needs to be held, embraced and set right. Look, I'm not saying that everyone who comes back is an innocent but a vast majority probably are. Spitting on a child molester does not, in any way, equate to spitting on a kid(soldier). Spitting on a soldier makes about as much sense as spitting on the victim of a molester...none.
What about the suggestion of creating a forum for getting more involved communication between kids and the world that wants to use them up like some kind of disposable commodity? I'd like to see something positive come out of this exchange rather than just batting words around.

 

So you are saying that spitting on a soldier is a symbol, right? Obviously the actual act doesn't stop the war in and of itself, so it must be a symbol. Like flag burning is a symbol, or the flag itself is a symbol.

However, the importance of a sign all revolves around its interpretation. If someone spits on me, I will only see an act of hate against me. And honestly, if I weren't a pacifist, I would beat them pretty badly. Why? Because they disrespected me, personally.

My veiw is that it is far more than the soldiers. It goes up higher. "When the rich wage war, it is the poor who die". If we show love and compassion to these soldiers, there is a better chance we will get them to join us than by spitting on them or otherwise disrespecting them.

 

Skip, I took a look at your thread, Support the Troops?

First, there's a difference between supporting the troops and glorifying them. I don't glorify the troops, and my idea of supporting them is not holding the war in Iraq against them. I hold it against Bush Inc. and the pentagon.

I don't call all soldiers baby killers, because they're not. Yes there are war criminals out there and they should be reviled and punished, but to lump all soldiers into the same category is absurd.

Instead of spitting on returning soldiers, wouldn't it be far more productive to greet them with leaflets telling them how to join the Iraq Veterans Against the War? Get them working for our side!

 

Here is some copy on The Subject at hand:


http://www.slate.com/id/1005224/


http://www.slate.com/id/2159099/

 

Skip, is there any chance of getting any links posted so people can write to their senator/representatives? If educating kids is critical, and it is, having a way for them to be involved with the government seems like a good first line. How many people here are involved in their government to the point of corresponding? How many people here even know who their Senators/representatives are on either a state or federal level. Seems to me there are some critical questions people need to be asking the politicians like; whats your stance on the war, the potential for a draft, the national debt, the environment. This thread has been heated and ugly but it seems to me something good could and should come out of it. Education and participation could get a start here.

 

The crap that passes for education in schools today is geared toward meeting compliance for bush's "no child left behind" initiative. Kids are simply being educated to be good service worker/drones. The future of America, our kids, has been sold way short. Political awareness/education pretty much consists of kids putting together "Care Packages" for the troops and completing DARE classes. Somewhere along the line caring adults need to be supplmenting the lack of education kids are getting. There are way to many groups with "agenda's" that are trying to pass their propaganda off on kids and often through programs offered through schools. If any of the things that I believed in in the 60's count for anything then reaching out to the young is critical. Other wise they're at the mercy of the system.

 

I don't think it's so much as overthrowing the system, but overhauling the education system would be a start.

I mean, I dropped out because someone got stabbed and the student to teacher ratio was around 40... plus we have the highest teen death rate in the state. Most of the teachers don't care anymore because it's just another lousy job, and the few that do go above and beyond all expectations do not get the credit or incentives/bonuses that they should be getting.

I mean, the only teacher I really take seriously talks to my on myspace. http://www.myspace.com/hierarchyofnuts Some groovin songs, though. I like spleen.

But... when are people going to realize that our education system is out of date and has been falling behind since the end of the industrial revolution. Michigan will probably be the first state to have a large overhaul, due to failing industry there (especially US automobile production) and Harvard is already overhauling their university.

We're in a different age now and there's something going on.