Spitting on Vietnam Soldiers

Yes, I totally agree with you. I once had a dream where I had to kill someone in selfdefence. I woke up so messed up that I couldn't function normally the whole day. I mean, dreams are the best ways for your mind to tell you how you would feel in a certain situation. I know I could never live with myself if I knew that I had taken someone's life. I know, the selfdefence and all that stuff are things that can work in court, but when it comes to dealing with it myself when all the lights are off, I know I just couldn't take it, and I'm afraid of even thinking what I would do in that situation.
As for the 'nam soldiers or any other soldiers, 'cause my dad was one too not so long ago, I know that it isn't their fault they had to go trough all taht, but still...
Luckily, my dad was a doctor in the army so he helped to save lives rather than taking them, and that actually makes me really happy!

PEACE

 

This post is filled with intelligence. I was in the army myself. Those soldiers arent heroes like everyone would like you to believe. A lot of them are just kids straight out of high school. They just want money to pay for their college and that's it. They are people just like you and I and nothing more. Wearing that uniform doesn't turn you into Superman. It doesn't make you any more brave. Most of those soldiers don't deserve to have weapons in their hands. Since history shows us that mankind has changed very little aside from technology over the course of a few thousand years, one can only assume that many of the soldiers serving in vietnam were no different than those serving now. You say "those soldiers fight so you don't have to". Such a dumb statement considering we didn't HAVE to go to Vietnam. The purpose of the army is to DEFEND the country. When troops are deployed for any other purpose you can rest assured that it is all about political GREED which only benefits the rich people and politicians. Then the general civilian population of both countries have to pay the price for this greed. Perhaps you should wake up and stop falling for all this patriotic bullshit. Perhaps reading this http://www.snopes.com/quotes/goering.htm may benefit you as well.

 

My understanding is that their never was a single instance of a hippie spitting on a returning vietnam vet. This is according to the book "the spitting image". It says it was a myth and that it was in fact the other way around, that in protests, it was divided between antiwar hippies and people who were for the war, some were vets. Anyways it was the vets that were rude to the hippies. It kind of makes me angry that everyone states that in fact people were spit on. It is such a lie, it never happened. It was a way for everyone to deflect blame. We just lost our first war ever, we had gone through my lai, and watergate and nixon, and hippies were a group that literally wouldnt fight back, which made them an easy target. They were portrayed as degenerates especially after manson and the Mcdonald killings.

The point is that people should stop acting like hippies spat on vets, because not one instance has ever been documented. Case closed.

This is not to say I support spitting on vets. However I must confess, after Abu Gharaib, I saw several marines walking by and was tempted to berate them, even though they didnt have any thing to do with it. I bit my tongue.

Thats the sad thing about all this, the fact that because of manson because of some of the actions of the weathermen, because one of the weathermen said "kill your parents kill the rich people", because of the mcdonald murders, because of all this hippies are portrayed in a bad light. Thats the real travestry, and the other being that instead of discussing vietnam and what went on, we discuss petty issues like Swift boats and spat upon vets

 

Wether or not you chose to believe that the spitting ever happened is your choice.It most certainly did happen to me.There are some things one just does not forget.Do you think or believe we just made that up? If so,for what purpose? It was so bad that when appling for a job I learned NOT to put down my military time,as many others found out too.I don't care what is written in a book,I was there,I wore a uniform.There are certain "enlightened" factions around here(where I live) that still feel that we as soldiers started the damn war.I feel sorry for you young people.You are so damn smug in your thinking and beliefs.I wouldn't do this or do that,I would rather go to jail and so on.Real easy to be an armchair quaterback when none of this shit actually affects you.If the world keeps turning the way I think it will,you too will have some tough choices to make,,,and running off to Canada of mexico is not going to be an option.I'll tell you something else you probably won't believe,I tried and succeded to maintain my "hippiness" even while in a combat zone,and I damn sure can prove it too.I caught all kinds of flack from the lifers,but then,as now,I didn't and don't give a shit what people think of me.I have more then enough pictures from back then to go along with it.

 

How would the government fight an aggressive war if every single person said they wouldn't fight. You can't jail everyone.

 

Just because it wasn't documented doesn't mean it never happened. If a cop hit you during an anti-war rally and you couldn't prove it does that mean it never happened?

Most people in the anti-war movement then and now engaged only in peaceful demonstrations, but a few resorted to violent confrontations, and before you knew it there was a riot. Today there are still anarchists who believe that peaceful demonstrations accomplish nothing and try to incite fighting in the streets. Unfortunately many outside observers lump them all, peaceful or violent, into the same category: hippie protesters.

 

Nice theory... now back to reality...

 

it doesnt even have to be every person, just a majority of people... the governments not go ing to fight an aggressive war that they cant win.

back in those days they could have said freeing the slaves was "unrealistic" or that women getting the right to vote is "unrealistic" --- if everone would have sat with their finger up their ass instead of pursuing these dreams, they wouldnt have the same rights you do have today.

Even the foundation of the US was based on something seemingly so unrealistic at the time.

 

we are talking humans here.. to you really.. sincerly.. believe that all humans could live together in total peace? Have you stepped outside lately?

Hell, even monkeys have wars.. seriously.. get real.

 

Monkeys dont have wars... no animal has wars like we have wars... they have territorial disputes, and fights over female monkeys... not flat-out massive wars.

Not fighting in a unjust aggressive war doesnt mean TOTAL PEACE... people will still bicker and get in fights, the differnece is... theres no agreesive unjust war... So many times throughout history people have been shunned by others for things being "Unrealistic" and so many times people have proven those who shunned them to be flat-out wrong... IF we simply say everything is unrealistic, we leave no room for any real progressive change...

No human really "wants" war.. especially an unjust AGGRESSIVE WAR... the only way to stop it, and obtain peace between nations, is to not fight for the nation who launches the aggressive war... And I dont think its any less possible than the emancipation proclimation was, or womens rights to vote... or gandhi's success...

Or when the first person tried to fly across the entire world, hundreds of people told them it was unrealistic... and they were proved wrong.

You simply say its unrealistic because you've never seen it happen before... but things are happening every day that have never been done before.

If you mean be "real" as in be a pessimistic, cynical, nihilist with no hopes for the future... than no.. i wont be real.

 

Obviously you haven't seen this documentary about chimps.. newsflash.. animals aren't cute and cuddly

So.. there is 'war' and there is 'unjust war' according to you? Could you elaborate on that? And what is really the difference between to neighbours fighting eachother over where that darn fence should be placed and two countries over where the border should be? Please explain yourself..

The fact that some things that were said to be unrealist have proven to be otherwise doesn't mean that all supposedly unrealistic things can become real. If the human population would get decimated.. hell.. if there would be 1/100th of the population there is today.. then maybe, just maybe there would be enough space for everyone to live peacefully. But even then my bet is there will be tribe wars and what not. But ok.. neither one of us can look into the future.. time will tell.. I just know where my money is on.

Again.. please explain what ab 'unjust aggressive war' is.. as opposed to a 'normal war' or whatever you are getting at.

The shifting of equality and oppression within the human race is a totally different issue than that of the human nature when it comes to the possibility of defending territory, expanding territory and general inclinations towards violence.

Don't get me wrong.. I know 'murderers' personally.. they are some of the sweetest guys I know.. I don't have a problem of seeing the possibility of peace within an individual.. but for me, humankind as a whole is just another monkey race with just another tendency towards war and violence. Unless we have sex like the bonobo's.. ofcourse

 

Why post a documentary, attempting to prove me wrong, which just proves my original point exactly correct... from the documentary:

This is nothing like a full scale war that humans wage... there are not hundreds of thousands of monkeys fighting eachother.

Its more Defending yourself Vs Attacking someone... if your country attacks someone, you shouldnt fight for that country... if your country is defending itself, you should defend your family.

The two neighbors dont kill eachother... they dont drop bombs on eachothers houses... they dont line up their women and children, and slaughter them. They dont drop napalm on them... The list goes on and on... such an obvious question, i think you already knew the answer to.

It isnt about living completely peacefully, you miss my point entirely... its about not fighting these massively unjust AGGRESSIVE wars.. Im not saying anything about living completely peacefully... im talking about ending war that isnt needed... people will still have their quarrels and arguments, you cant stop that... Your money is on hopelessness and war... how sad.

Easy question... Unjust war, is a war that has no merrit... no real reason to have started in the first place (besides perhaps the pockets of those who control the country)... an unjust AGGRESSIVE war... is a war that isnt used to defend the country... its a war that one country takes part of to ATTACK another nation. Its as simple as the dictionary definition... its not that hard to understand
Unjust = Unjust
Aggressive = Aggressive
War = War.
Its a simple concept, really.

Before it had happened, you wouldnt have said that... you would have rambled on about the impossibilities of it..
GOVERNMENTs do not represent human nature... when THEY expand territory, they arent expanding OUR territory... they are expanding their EMPIRE... which is completely different than monkeys defending their territory (a tree where their young ones frolic)

Again, monkeys who show defending their territory, and quarreling over food and women is NOT the same as the wars being led today. I cant believe you actually think "because monkeys fight over territory, food and women... this proves that humans will never stop having massive wars"
And actually, humans sexuality is CLOSEST to that of a bonobo, not a chimpanzee... bonobos FUCK all the time to release stress, just like humans...
ask any phys anthro major

These monkeys dont look up to a "president" monkey who leads them in a massive war where they will DIE and murder innocent children/women/men... Whenever they fight, its to protect their family...

You cannot use the psychology of monkeys to justify these bullshit wars... or act like humanity will bend over and take it up the ass to any president who wants to go to war for any fucked up fuckin reason.

Peace is realistic... how do I know this? Im at peace with everyone around me... when I go to work, i dont fight with anyone... when I go down to the mall, i never get in a fight... This is peace working in progress... Now if we could only stop fighting for our empires... What makes ahuman so peaceful at home, work, school... and what changes them so they are willing to go across the world to SLAUGHTER, BURN, women and children THAT THEY DONT EVEN KNOW... ill tell you what makes a person do such HORRIBLE things..

The idea of being a hero
Being drafted(No choice)
Money
Being looked up to back at home
The illusion of defending your family whilst being half way across the world, killing people who would never make it into your home or remotely threaten your family..
The illusion of being a tough ass mofo that no one can fuck with
And a thirst for murder, bloodlust, being generally fucked up in the head.

Monkey War:


Human War:


See the difference?

 

How does



This



Justify



This.



It doesnt.


Maybe if those were your own children, you would put aside the possibilities, and fight for what YOU ALL KNOW is right. Martin luther king jr wasnt thinking of the possibilities... neither was gandhi, harriet tubman... This is what makes them True Heros.

 

Here's an article from the Boston Globe about debunking the "spitting" myths. http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ed...ticles/2005/04/30/debunking_a_spitting_image/

 

I would fight a war on my own soil and defend my country, but the whole idea of invading another nation for 'self-protection' is absurd. Why die for money, especially when its not even your own.

 

Seems to me this is what I've been saying, in a few instances veterans were spit on by anti-war fanatics, an action so inflammatory that the media blew it out of proportion to make it look like a common occurence. On the other hand, some of us in the anti-war movement are trying to deny that it ever happened, not even once. Both sides need to realize that it did occur in rare instances, but those who did such a thing should not be lumped in the same category as the peaceful protesters. We should not have to defend it, we were not the ones doing it, we are not cut from the same cloth.

 

so you wouldn't fight if we start getting hit by suicide bombers carrying nuclear bombs? "self-protection" isn't a clear cut thing. the circumstances that lead to war seldom are, for that matter.

as for the spitting thing... whether it happened or not really isn't the issure, imo. the way our vets were treated upon their return is; and it was disgraceful. I mean, not being able to put down your service record on a job app? That's just horrible....

And as a final note, I find it quite insulting to stereotype all our vets as child killers, among other things. Playing with facts in such a way is exactly how wars get started in the first place.

 

deleted... double post...

 

Because Vietnam was training terrorists to hijack planes and destroy America, yes? Or are you talking about Iraq that is known to send many nuclear suicide bombers overseas?

 

the book was written by jerry lembcke. The back blurb is interesting, "The image is ingrained: A vietnam vet, arriving home from war, gets off a plane only to be greeted by an angry mob of antiwar protestors yelling "Murderer" and "baby killer". The out of the crowd comes someone who spits in the vets face. The only problem, is that no such incident ever has been documented. It is instead a kind of urban myth that reflects out lingering national confusion over vietnam.