Should Quebec be its own country?

I meant a great avatar for anyone

but Im pretty sure you didnt mean my post anyways

 

I have, like my patience with stupidity, a very limited supply of bullshit. Unfortunately there are people with a never-ending suppy of both bullshit and stupidity.

Bof, t'es un goof.

 

Wow, insulting me in french now too... I guess that shows me...

How about you try to answer even ONE of the issues that I brought up, instead of constantly trying to deflect the argument onto shit like gst and the cost of bread?

There are very REAL issues between the french and english.

Namely that the french think that to preserve their culture, they must impose it upon everyone.

Explain how it is reasonable, that in a country that is bilingual in order to satisfy a small part of the population, we have to accept those same people trying to stop any language other then their own from being used in their province?

Tell me how it makes sense, that a person living in Quebec, can freely work outside the province and bring money back into it, yet the reverse isn't allowed?

Of course, if the best you can come up with is yet another insult, I will understand.

 

I've answered all these questions. But they are not the answers you want. What you seek is justification for your position.

So for the record, here is my position.

1) You're being lied to.
2) I'm being lied to.
3) Regardless of anglophone or francophone, the gouverments of canada are keeping anglophones and francophones at each so they can proit.

Personally,
All gouvernments and politiciens are lying sacks of human garbage. But as long as the stupid masses continue to listen and believe this sub-humain species, nothing will ever get better. Therefore let me make it clear, I would wipe my ass on the Québec flag just as fast as I would on the Canadian flag. The only reason it is in my signature is because I'm hoping to converse in french and I'm also enjoying the show of the ignorant masses.

Yes I'm arrogant but at least I think for myself. In the end, you can either do the same. Or, you can continue to be a goof. The decision is yours.

 

Hello... there is no government here saying anything... All there is are people who are genuinely concerned and annoyed with the way the french continously try to walk all over everyone else.

You can blame the government all you wish, but you are the one who was whining and bitching about how unfair the english have been to the french.

Yet everytime someone points out that the reverse is in fact true, you call them a goof and then blame the government...

That isn't thinking for yourself... that is regurgitating the same bullshit over and over again.

Were those examples too hard for you?

How about we try the example you brought up about the way all this started...

How was it okay for the french to join with one native 'faction' to kill and steal from others, but it wasnt okay for the english to do so?

So we're clear... I think both were wrong to do so, which is why I have never tried to argue that the english were right to do so, and somehow fair in their choices of who they killed and stole from.

But I will definitely argue that they weren't any worse then the french who assisted in the killing and raiding of the Iroquois nation for, to quote your own words;

Why is it that you ignore that? I guess that it was an alliance against the Iroquois nation is just government propaganda that accidentally fell off your fingertips??

Both the english and the french came here for the same purposes, to exploit whatever they could to benefit their respective crowns at the expense of ALL the indigenous population.

We ALL ended up staying, and together, through crises and triumph we have built a country that is not bad considering what the other options around the world are. Yet a small portion of the french in quebec, keep whining and crying and bitching about wanting to separate 'their' land from the rest of canada...

You keep going on about people thinking for themselves, yet for every 'fact' you have suggested, I have offered actual references to prove them wrong...

What has your response been each time?

To call me a goof and try it again from a different angle.

Show me I'm wrong and offer up some form of reasonable answer to ANY of the questions I've posed... beyond, "it's all the government's fault"...

 

lol

Not a single coherent thought in your head I guess...

 

If Quebec became a separate nation, would the people of French ancestry truly achieve their goals? (preserving culture? more local autonomy? economic justice?)
I am guessing that very little would change.

If Quebec became a separate nation, would it change the life of anyone in the remaining provinces of Canada? (I am guessing that it would not affect their life one bit).

So if nothing will change, why bother?
But if it does happen, no one will be hurt by it anyway.
(I don't have a dog in this hunt, just speculating).

Suggestion:
I think Canada should outlaw speaking English and French on the streets and on road signs, billboards and business entrances. Instead, make Spanish the official language. That way no one will be at a disadvantage.

 

Well, let's look at it shall we?

Would it affect any americans if a swath out of the middle of your country was turned over to the native americans? Not just a slice... but a piece that literally cuts one half of your country off from the other... I'm sure americans would be happy to have to stop at two borders in order to drive from the west to east coast...

Both sides will have to hire extra security in order to patrol the borders where there were once nothing. Both sides will have to have to set up governments...

I could keep going on.... Any crops or other goods from that section will now be an international import. All the money required to set up a complete seperate government...

Where is all this money going to come from?

Why would you expect it to be any different here?


edited to add...


Oh and of course there is the issue of those that live there already whom want to stay american... that will be another huge chunk of money...

 

Tom you are assuming a traditional border. What about a European Union style loose confederation that permits easy travel for Canadian Union citizens, but a degree of autonomy within the various member states (provinces)?

 

That's your (american) deal... Not ours... How about if we keep canada as it is, and those who don't want to be part of it can leave?

Keep something in mind here... the numbers that were tossed around by the one poster here are 100% lies. Look at the numbers I posted and the links they came from. Even in quebec itself, Only 53% are just french... And even with that majority of french only speaking people, they have failed to win a referendum to seperate. To go even further, those parties that used to fight for seperation, no longer do so. They know it has become a political killer because they DO NOT have the numbers to win.

Look at the numbers...

29,639,030 people...
20,014,645 speak ONLY ENGLISH.

What was it that was said a while back here...

... so much for that eh?


Only 3.9 million speak only french... and not even all of them want to seperate...


Why would we allow a small percentage of the population of quebec to tear our country apart?

 

You didn't answer any of his questions. How would America like it if North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas decided to separate and become Super Texas? How would that affect the US?

Also, what about the national debt? They are not walking out of here scott free.

 

Daisy, the answer was that it depends on what sort of borders and rules governing free travel and commerce we establish as to how well we would weather a new nation in our heartland.

I am sympathetic to separatist movements. My family lived in the Confederate States of America for a few years and we were fine with it. The Yankees disagree with our choice, but it was their problem, certainly not ours.

 

You are sympathetic to separatist movements... So you want to see everything go back to the feudal days when each town and area was its own separate entity?

That worked REALLY well in the past...

 

I am a disciple of Wendell Berry when it comes to community empowerment, but I don't think you have to duplicate past systems in order to find out what was good about them and incorporate only those elements.

 

Well, Quebec was talking about needing passports to go through last time they got whiny about separating. It's going to be a messy divorce if they ever get to do it.

I'm guessing it would be like the Canada/US border. Fully separate countries, and pissy about it.

Unless you are around 180 years old, it was not your choice or your lifestyle. And not something you should be proud of.

 

Maybe no one will get everything they want. To work well, calm heads will have to prevail and a lasting workable solution would have to incorporate easy passage between the nations. A Canadian Union modelled on the European Union would seem far superior to me than a US-style system.

As I said, you do not have to make a duplicate of a past system to learn from its successes and mistakes. I hope you don't think the current system is perfect and cannot be improved upon.

 

Show me an example of community empowerment that worked without becoming fuedal that doesn't have a government already in place above them taking care of all the difficult details.

Any community in Canada, or the US, or any other country, falls under the protection of the government and the laws of the country. As such, you can't point to one of them and say, look it worked there... because it was never a separate independent community.

Even if you could find me an example of a community that did exist in the past that worked without a government over top of it... look around, do you see any today? Why not? Because the places that do have governments expand to swallow those that don't.

What would have happened during the war of independence (in the US) if the communities wouldn't have banded together into a nation?

 

Actually I did not say that they need anarchy, nor should they do without a regional or national government. The point is: the national government or supra-national in the case of the EU doesn't have to take care of ALL the details. We don't want them to. That's where people with strong highly centralized Federal systems screw up, there are unique needs and cultures from hamlet to hamlet, county to county, province to province.

The original confederation was a national government, but not the highly centralized (federal) United States you see today.

The original conferation was commonly regarded as too weak, but that did not justify going to the other extreme that we have today.

Don't try to emulate the USA or you will be just as screwed up as we are. (just a suggestion)