Should I dose again at all?

Dude all the society stuff is Desos, not me. And any point that i make is bound to morph and re-mold itself moment by moment, so i'm not really trying to make a specific point.

 

Maybe someday this will manifest for me. Right now, i'm not really concerned with sounding coherent, as i'm not really trying to prove anything specific to anyone.

Basically, at the end of the day, all i'm saying is that despite anything medical concerning schizophrenia, that really has nothing to do with, and does not disprove the fact that Shamanism COULD play a role with it in one way or another.

FreshDacre COULD have tapped in to supernatural powers. And evil ones.

You guys are just so damn sure of yourselves with all the medical stuff. And i'm not saying that you're wrong, but rather attempting to point out that you're not even considering anything else to ALSO play a role. And i mean, that's fine. I'm just saying, you don't know for CERTAIN that other, more "spiritual" things are also taking place.

This is like Altered States 101. Watch that movie, as it addresses pretty much everything we are speaking about on this thread..

 

Can I ask you something? When you hear someone say "Hey guys, I recently took a psychedelic (which are known to cause mental issues in some) and I'm now experiencing mental issues. Oh, and as a completely seperate note, I also hear the voice of God now and have tapped into higher dimensions."

Why is it that that first little part, I took a psychedelic and now have mental issues, does not stay salient for you? Why is it that you read over that, get right to the "Now God talks to me part", nod your head sagely, and say "Maybe this fellow is on to something".

What if I told you China that yesterday I was struck in the head with a falling object at work, was unconscious for 6 hours, and since having awoken I see angels all around me. Would you actually think that I "COULD have tapped into supernatural powers"?

Really dude?

 

Yes! precisely, in fact. People have been known to undergo all-out explosive kundalini awakenings because of situations just like the one you presented. I would be very intrigued to say the very least...

There are people all over the world who take spirituality, yoga, and religion just as seriously as people who take the medical field seriously. I'm not asking you to choose one over the other. Why limit yourself? I'm beckoning that you atleast become aware and recognize that things such as kundalini awakenings, mystical experiences, out of body experiences, past life episodes, even alien abduction is a very real thing for a lot of people, and they take it seriously.

 

The difference between the medical field and things like religion and alien abductions is that the medical field is objectively verifiable, religions and alien abductions are not. That is, you and Desos could never between the two of you prove that there are higher spiritual dimensions. Not ever, ever. There is simply no way. Whereas a doctor could quite easily prove to you that schizophrenia is a disease in the brain.

That's the difference man. When I go to the doctor and tell him I struck my head, lost consciousness for 6 hours, and am now hallucinating angels, he will run an MRI on my head, see that I have damage in my visual cortex, and undergo actions to repair it. If I come to you or Desos with this story, you would buy me a beer, tell me to regail you with stories of the angels, and tell me that I had probably tapped into higher dimensions. Do you see the difference? One of these is very useless and amounts to the kind of thinking that fools kids into believing in santa clause.

Oh my god! There are suddenly presents under my christmas tree! Santa Clause therefore must be real, for Timmy and Billy have been telling me stories about him for so long, and here are the presents! Nevermind that I heard my parents rummaging around at night.

 

Can you conclusively show me this kundalini energy you speak of?
Can it be measured in a lab? Can you light a light bulb with it?

You see one of the problems with the line of thinking that both you and Desos have is that you start with a foundation that is based on "maybes" and "possibles" and unproven spiritual concepts as though they were absolutely true and universally accepted. Everything else built upon those premises constitutes a failure to construct a sensible paradigm.

 

You wouldn't need to prove to anybody that you got abducted by aliens. Direct experience would be all the proof that you would need for yourself. Same goes with higher dimensions, and anything else for that matter. Direct experience is all that is needed.

And it's also up to YOU whether you decide your alien abductions and mystical experiences were hallucinations or not. If you shrug it off as a hallucination, that's exactly what it will be for you. If something within you beckons that it was real, then it was real, and will probably unfold even further. How do you define real and not real? I mean really? How? The dividing line really is the word "hallucination". But what is it that makes a hallucination not real? You underwent the experience didn't you?

This is what's so interesting regarding schizophrenia. Everyone's telling them that they're crazy, and they either accept it, resist it, or don't know what to think. Yet at the end of the day they experience what they experience, and it's as real to them as the sun. Meanwhile doctors are giving all of these medical explanations. And that's fine.

If you have to take a shit, you could also give a whole lot of physiological explanations as to how and why you have to take a shit, but that doesn't take away from the experience of shitting.

 

A little later on today i will post a shit ton of websites, foundations, sanghas, all dedicated to kundalini yoga. For atleast 40 years now, the gap has been closing more and more between the scientific world and the yoga world. Things such as acupuncture and hypnotherapy are somewhat in the middle, as a lot of spiritual teachers also have degrees in these professions.

Are you guys really so scientifically objective? And won't move any further? You do realize that that is just one of an infinitude of potential paradigms to look at the world from?

Which is basically the point i am trying to drive home AGAIN and AGAIN (i guess i do have a point to make afterall). There's an infinite amount of ways to look at anything. This is what i think was meant by "the doors of perception"..

 

What the fuck does that even mean? How do you plan to do that? No side-tangents, you've said that 20 times and I want to know what it means. Sounds like total fucking nonsense.

 

It means that i wouldn't suddenly stop everything in my life and retire to the fact that i now have this thing called schizophrenia. I would just continue delving further into the Mystery. It would open up my curiosity and give me a first hand account of what schizophrenia is really all about.

I would completely surrender to the isness of it and allow it to completely envelope me, and trust that this is simply the next stage of the path, however scary it may turn out to be.

I'm waiting for all the people to chime in with..."you have no control over it you dumbass, you can't choose what to do about schizophrenia"

Of course not, but i can still not resist the fact that it's there. I can face it, not run away from it. Acknowledge its presence. Carry the torch of consciousness forward. We have much less control over ANYTHING than we think we do anyway.

Ever seen A Beautiful Mind? You could argue that John Nash didn't let schizophrenia stop him. He ended up winning a Nobel Prize.

 

You haven't the first concept as to what you're talking about. I can't do this conversation anymore...

 

Let me ask you...what would YOU do if you were suddenly told that you're schizophrenic?

 

I keep track of my mental state...

 

So you're implying that you have control over whether you become schizophrenic or not? And you're telling me that i haven't the slightest clue as to what i'm talking about?

 

Sadly certain chemical imbalances in your brain can't be changed due to thinking in a certain way. maybe you can be a happy functioning Schizo but you are still Schizo...

 

Chinas right you guys are just gonna become sour with all these boundaries and preconceptions.

 

then so be it :sunny:

 

Schizophrenics have a higher rate of drug abuse, committing crimes and violence/suicide because they surrender to the 'isness'. One thing I think youre not giving schizophrenics enough credit for is that many do realize some of their thoughts are absurd. They often do go with the 'isness' intially and then later realize those thoughts are completely unfounded. So its not just others informing the individual of their illness.

you don't seem to understand the idea that that its hard to be your own 'buddha' when you can't even trust your own perceptions. Its hard to be master of your domain when your body goes rigid and you go catatonic for an hour.

If you want to bring up a 'Beautiful Mind' the guy almost drowned his child on accident due to hallucinationations as well and took medication to help function.

Its not that schizophrenics can't be intelligent or have any sort of autonomy, but it is often a debalitating illness that causes serious social impairment in work and relationships.

 

this post does not address what I was saying.

I said: Why do you resort to supernatural explanations for things which can be easily explained, and are easily explained, and are better explained (in the sense of better explanatory power and actually able to DO SOMETHING with the explanation), by every day normal things?

your reply: I don't need to prove that I got abducted by aliens because its true to ME.



That's great dude, and I don't need to prove that santa clause is real, because when I was 7, I saw him with my own eyes in my living room. However, as time has gone past, and I have matured as a person, grown up as a human being, and my brain has developed and aged, I've learned that often our minds and senses trick us. Truth is not "what is true to me". That's just . . . "what is true to you". That's just a misuse of the word "truth". You are being dishonest China, and it's really angering me. I feel you are not this stupid, I feel you are just fence-sitting and stubborn, and that deep down you hear a kernel of sanity telling you "how can it be truth if its only true to me?"

Truth is shared truth. It is spread. It is agreed upon. When many people, across centuries and continents, describe a horrible affliction of the mind, we can say that this has a strong truth to it. When just you say that this affliction is really modern day shamanism and is really a link to higher dimensions and the key to speaking with malevolent and benevolent supernatural forces . . . well dude . . . you can believe whatever the hell you want, there a trillion unfounded, unproved, up-in-the-air mystical mumbo jumbo concepts out there, take your pick. Kundalini, karma, past lives, cosmic beings . . . my question is where the hell do you stop then? Don't you see what a slippery slope this kind of sloppy thinking leads to? Don't you see that this kind of sloppy thinking is one of the cores of schizophrenia? People with this condition often cannot find a basis for distinguishing between thoughts in their head like "The traffic light is red right now" and "God wants me to shoot 3 children". Do you not see how your own thinking is in this very vein? You don't examine anything you think, you don't question your own reality, you only question what others tell you.

5 million doctors tell you you have schizophrenia, but just one thought in your head tells you you are the chosen one, and so you end up believing you are the chosen one. Why? This is the disease. It is a retardation of truth-value sensitivity. You become incapable of distinguishing thoughts that would not even last 1 second under a mediocre truth-light and those that are the foundation of modern, useful things like science that actually does something in this world, other than filling forums and books and youtube videos with pretty pictures of cosmic energy.

Really guys. This is not hard. It's ok to look at a beautiful idea like "karma" and say "but is it really in this universe? or is it just an idea in someone's head."

I'm gonna try my best to no longer participate in this thread because it just makes me want to delete my hipforums account and bash my skull against my desk until the stupid stops hurting me. I want to say so much more but it's just vitriol.

Sloppy, stupid, hurtful thinking. Cut it the fuck out.

 

They really do need a "shake my head in dismay" smilie for threads such as this.
Also for the "I'm going to kill myself threads".
Why not just post a thread entitled LOOK AT ME!!!!! with your pic in it.