Sharia Law

Karen J said in another thread=" the price of receiving tolerance, is that you must give it." Pretty simple, but obviously difficult to do with some of those religious nuts.

I have to add=They're not the only ones that enjoy dominion over others. We have it here, only here it's done with "papers." Business papers.

It's just way more sneaky here and not as violence filled. (on the surface.)

 

I think it's really important to recognize the way the population is heading. Through totally nonviolent means, governments can ensure that death cults don't become 10% of the population.

I think you need to make sure everyone in the country agrees to follow the laws of the country. So during voting, say, before you vote you need to read and sign a document that says you agree to ALL these laws that may very well conflict with your ancient doctrines. If you hold your ancient doctrines in higher regard than the law of the land, you have no place on the land. I would like to get their word, their signature, that says they WON'T marry off their 9 year old daughter. They WON'T be vigilantes against people drinking alcohol. They WON'T shout down and intimidate homosexuals. They WON'T EVER physically harm someone for blasphemy or apostacy. All of these things are unnacceptable in a civilized society, and they will not be tolerated. We want your word that you'll follow the law of the land, and if you don't, you'll be deported.

 

So, everyone will have to swear to never smoke marijuana, or take LSD, speed on the highway, cheat on taxes, or jay-walk? No, I don't think that is the solution.

 

It's about infringing on other people's rights. I don't really think there's such a thing as a victimless crime. Everything I mentioned involves controlling or harming other people. There's a clear difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2y5n-hAnUE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkIQWz_UKiM

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4gNBf2n3o

 

That shit makes my blood boil. Who the fuck do they think they are? Look--I like puppies and kitties and I have compassion for those less fortunate that I---but---BUT--"humans" like that will NOT be telling me I can't walk somewhere in my OWN COUNTRY. I don't think that can happen here--but I could be wrong. There's a time to make a stand. I can't believe they are getting away with this overseas.

 

Nerd

But you don’t say by what means?

Agrees?

The laws are followed because they are enacted and enforced but that doesn’t mean I or others cannot disagree with them and work to get them changed or amended that is the political process.

That sounds very fascistic.

What ‘ancient doctrines’ are you talking about?

Again sounds fascistic and again what ‘ancient doctrines’ are you talking about?

That is against the law in the UK

Vigilantism is already against the law, do you mean they cannot demonstrate in a peaceful way?

As I remember the US is one of the very few western democracies that brought in probation due to a popular movement against people drinking alcohol

Already against the law in the UK, this was common in many places until quite recently I recommend you see the movie ‘Pride’

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3169706/

Already against the law in the UK.

They are already unacceptable in the UK.

If anyone commits a criminal act they are subject to the law and will be punished accordingly – if they are a foreign subject they may be deported (often after punishment) but if they are a citizen of that country then they are the responsibility of that country.

*

Your post only makes sense as another piece of scaremongering

 

It is meant to that is what that type of propaganda is all about - getting people angry – it’s the first step in the construction of blind hate.

Nerd is a racist who thinks black people are inferior to whiter ones and who posts video’s featuring far-right fascist groups.

He has his own agenda which involves manipulation and hate mongering.

 

The ancient doctrines I'm talking about are those required by Sharia Law. Do you understand that Sharia Law directly contradicts many English laws, and US laws?

You saw the videos, didn't you? Woman with a skirt on, queue megaphone "You cannot dress like that in Muslim area"

Queue couple walking down the street, "Remove yourself away from the Mosque. Muslim patrol, Muslim patrol. Move away from the Mosque now. Go away now. Don't come back. Don't come back, keep your mouth closed. You don't consume alcohol it is haram for your necks."

Let me ask you a direct question, I hope you'll be good enough to answer. If the Muslim population of the UK doubles, do you expect more or less of this kind of activity?

 

Ahhhh-hah! I know what's going on here!

It's the anti-Islamic fear-mongers who are staging these European protests.
They drew up the signs to make Islam look bad, I betcha.









Oh, I bet they even staged the Charlie Hebdo attack in France.

Yeah, totally benign population of people, for sure!

 

Unfortunately, I could take you to places in my state where your presence on a sidewalk would not be tolerated because you're white. But... there is reasonable hope that this situation will improve over time. Radical Islam isn't going to get better.

 

I guess you don't have the capacity to separate the message from the messenger.

Yes, Nerd has clearly demonstrated his racist slant on things, BUT in this instance he is correct concerning what the religion the Muslims follow teaches.
you keep asking "what ancient doctrines?" are you really that thickheaded??
considering the entire discussion revolves around the religion, it's a pretty damn good bet those "ancient doctrines" are those espoused in their religious source material, the Quran.
If you think he is full of it, go read the Quran for yourself, it really is that simple.

and has not jack-diddly-shit to do with anything more than what the religion teaches and the degree of devotion/commitment the followers of the religion posses.

 

So I ask again Balbus, this is happening in your country,
so what are YOU DOING about it?

 

I guess it's my country too, and I don't see anything much any individual can do. It's up to politicians to act, not individuals. And since none of them other than far right nut cases say much about the problem, I don't think much will be done. Most politicians are running scared, and just parrot the line that Islam is 'a religion of peace', despite all the evidence to the contrary.

If there were to be a serious threat of an islamic 'takeover', and we're nowhere near that at this stage of the game, I doubt the British establishment will simply roll over and let it happen. That's when it could get nasty.

 

Blood's still boiling. Our government puts out a lot of bullshit---but---the videos above don't seem like bullshit to me. This is some of the worst humanity has to offer at this point in time. No one with any sense at all can defend these poor excuses for human beings. No one! And as some have asked--'where are the peaceful muslims countering this
outrageous behavior?" India rebelled against Britain and got their independence in a peaceful way----can't be done with radical muslims. Obviously, they'll slaughter anyone that attempts to counter them. Anyone that could fucking SAW A HUMANS HEAD OFF---FOR RELIGION YET!!!!!!)---IS TOTALLY AND IRREVOCABLY INSANE. Unfortunately, we must become like them, to eliminate them. Sad but true.

Shall we wait then?

 

Extremists of all types want a reaction; the trick is to not give them it.

They are extreme to get an extreme reaction that is what they want it fits in with their agenda, I think people shouldn’t give them that satisfaction and that goes for radical Muslims, fascists or racists.

Remember about making the mistakes of the past see the damage policies based on the idea that all left wingers were actually evil communists – well how about every Muslim must be an evil jihadist.

Look at the statements – kill them all - we must become as evil as them, to eliminate them -

THEM – THEM- THEM - Muslims

And THEY the extremists on both sides will just love that.

Oh yes let’s put everyone under a label then hate the label, so all non-Muslim are evil crusaders and everyone who’s a Muslim is an evil jihadist, every catholic is a evil papist every protestant an evil heretic, all black men are violent rapists and every white person a secret white supremacist, and so on and so on fear, get angry, hate.

Go on just hate.

And that’s what I’m getting here the embers of hatred been fuelled by those who want you to hate.


[edit]

PS : it saddens and disappoints me that some here that I thought had clearer minds have step so easily into such extremist thinking becoming in effect the thing they claim to despise.

 

In basic terms ‘we’ have to make secular ideas more attractive than the alternatives. The problem in my view, is that at the moment the ideas that dominant the western ‘liberal’ countries (especially the US) don’t seem that attractive.

As I pointed out earlier there was a time when secular ideas were attractive to many in the Middle East (and many other places) but what was attractive were the reformist, liberal and progressive ideas of the left. The problem was that even when not communist or even socialist those ideas were often seen as dangerous by anti-communist western governments, who often took action against them.

Basically what the reformers wanted was to undermine the old power structures which were conservative (and often more religious in many cases tribal and/or based in patronage) through equalizing mechanisms and the distribution of wealth (land reform, nationalization of resources, as well as bringing in universal education, welfare, healthcare etc).

It had appeal because it was about helping the community as a whole.

The capitalistic alternative doesn’t have that appeal because it didn’t seem to do anything about tackling inequality (often seeming to entrench or increase it) while been all about ‘corrupting’ and ‘soulless’ consumerism. And it put a lot more emphasis on the individual the problem with that it can emphasize difference,

The neo-con dream that a neo-liberal/free market system could be imposed on Iraq and be welcomed with open arms backfired badly, it just made a bad situation worse. And made the US look less like liberators and more like ‘crusaders’ playing right into the hands of Muslim extremists.

So historically the US did a lot to undermine left wing secularism in the Middle East has no attractive alternative for people to get behind so it was no wonder that the winner in that region has been religion.

Secularism grew in Europe and the US (sometimes referred to as The Enlightenment) because secular ideas seemed more attractive than the religious alternatives (less so in the US after the rise of Social Darwinism, but that is another story), religion seemed brutish and violent after many years of religious wars and in many places churches were seen as corrupt and venal.

In the US this brought about the separation of the church and state along with constitution rights. In Europe the French revolution promoted the whole human rights angle and lead to the growth of socialism.

I think there will be a backlash against the extremists but that does not mean that what then appears is secular or progressive (especially with Wahhabism so well financed)

So to repeat if ‘we’ are to tackle the rise of religious ideas (and I’m not talking about the extremists they are just criminal nutjobs) then ‘we’ need secular ideas and societies that seem like attractive alternatives.

Wahhabism spread because it set up schools and taught its ideas, what is wanted is a secular alternatives.

The problem is that the secular neo-liberal/free market ideas that are dominant at the moment in the west and especially in the US seem to many to be corrupt and venal.

 

One concern I have over the idea that the Muslims should be 'killed' - which would amount to some kind of Hitlerian 'final solution' I assume, is that such a regime would be unlikely to stop at Muslims. Lefties, hippies, anarchists, maybe the disabled and any other 'social undesirables' or dissenting voices, would probably soon follow the Muslims into the gas ovens.

And it's no use saying 'send em back where they came from' as whole generations are British born.

However, I don't think trying to convince Muslims of the advantages of secular culture is likely to get anywhere.

 

First steps need to include; acknowledging there is a threat, understand that freedom FROM religion should always trump freedom OF religion, That blind tolerance should not always be politically correct, that religious fanaticism is a communicable mental illness...

 

It appears that some want nothing but obedience.