Share the Wealth

Not to mention you seem to intensely lack any understanding or insight as to why there is such morbid poverty.

 

Wow you guys continually label me with sooo many negative things, yet you have no idea who I am, nor do you know what I do. Actually I volunteer at a mission and a soup kitchen, which is all I can do for the time being as I'm stuck here until my knee gets better. I seriously can't believe some of you guys in here though, you claim to be so considerate etc...etc...then as soon as someone proposes an ideal (good or bad) such as this one, which I haven't even gone through with, and am not going to for reasons which I already stated, you start to bash them. (Take time to read through the entire thread). I asked for your opinions on this ideal, and I got them, you don't know me, so don't claim to....I make you sick why? Because of this thread? Wow.....seriously you're not judgmental....

So in a way you are the self-richeous one, who immediately looked down upon me for starting a thread in regards to an ideal I had, and all I asked for was opinions. Yet you seem to assume to already know who I am, so yep I'm a horrible person, and I should rightfully make you sick. My life is not worthy, and we need more people like you in the world, less people like me, I'm sorry to have ever bothered you, probably should just go and take my own life right? I mean that'd make the world a better place if I make such good people as yourself sick.....

Honestly.....I just don't understand why some of you guys are so quick to bash people in these forums and claim they are bad people, when you don't know who they are at all....

 

Here it is folks. It's the end of the world and I agree with Pressed Rat.

 

I agree with Pressed Rat & Lode.

 

Okay perhaps I was a bit of an ass. That is who I am.

You did not convey your intentions very well in your first post. That was the post I was reacting to.

Now that you have clarified.

I am giving you a real opportunity.

Do you really want to make a difference? Are you serious or is this just bs?

Give me the word and I will buy you a round trip airplane ticket for 6 months to come to Belize in Central America and actually do something that make a difference.

You will be housed and meals are provided. You will get a farm workers pay but you will not be working for my seed operation.

But this is the real world and out here it is not cozy or safe. There is real problems here.

It will be the hardest work you have ever done and then you will cry when you figure out that no matter how much money is thrown at a project, no matter how many people try to help...the solution is spiritual.

So you have that option if you want...

Otherwise I will make an anonymous donation to the charity of your choice.

No hard feelings.

Sincerely

Self righteous asshole

 

UA doesnt play.

 

Look Bth, you don't seem like a bad guy. The reason you got such a harsh response from people is that

1. you are, no offense, ignorant about the causes of poverty,

and

2. Most of the people want to help, and get annoyed that they can't figure out ways to do much while they know things are bad.

This isn't a problem that's going to be solved simply by throwing money at it. There are a lot of reasons why.

For example, food aid is often used in the form of dumping. That means throwing excess crop on impoverished markets. What happens is, that food is eaten, but it artificially deflates the price of food grown locally.

When the price of food pushed down so low, it means that farmers in Agrarian states, which is the entire developing world, cannot sell their crops. Theres too much food on the market and they can't sell their crops. Foreign crops outsell them, they're grown cheaper and they have export subsidies on them to push the prices down even further.

Now when you're pushing even more European and American food on African or Asian states because we think they're poor... farmers in these nations can't sell their crops. Their livelihood is destroyed and they are dependent on foreign food. Since they can no longer sell their food to barter and trade in a local market for food, when the crops rot, they often have no money and starve in a land of too much food.

There is far more then enough food grown in Africa to feed all Africans. And by flooding their markets with foreign grain, we destroy their market and make them dependent on it. When unpredicted outside forces act on the markets like the price of oil increasing greatly, the food doesn't even come at all.


That doesn't mean we should never give food aid. Just that it's completly mismanaged in an extremely dangerous way.

That's just one issue affecting all this. Remember how I mentioned Agricultural sanctions a minitue ago? That's huge. They mean Agrarian markets can't compete locally.

IMF loans are huge. People like [SIZE=-1]Robert Mugabe take on huge debts which causes runaway inflation which detroys markets. When Mugabe's gone Zimbabwe will be expected to repay all the money borowed that instead of being used for infrastructure and investment, was pissed away.

I could keep going on, but I'm kinda jumping all over the place. But these are things you need to read about.

You can actually do more damage with good intentions and no clue what to do, then if you do nothing. Like contributing to food dumping.

Read learn, and convince people of ways they can actually help. A lot of the reason people don't really commit to helping is because there so detached from how they can actually help, and their suspicious about whether their help will actually make a difference.

If you're well educated about the realities of the situation, You'll be much more convincing.



[/SIZE]

 

i like how the op has, thus far, been more worried about arguing against the evils of consumerism instead of listening to potential ways of genuinely helping (like being affiliated with an effective charity before door to door'ing it... im sure the awesomely clever lode can suggest a charity taht doesnt totally fuck up economies. medical aid type ones might be somethign to check out)

 

this thread boils down to class envy IMO.. bth envys the haves.. even though if he "had" he thinks he would live differently he still envys them SOMEWHERE DEEP DOWN..

as far as the rich doing there part,even if a wealthy individual were to give a million dollars to,,oh lets say UNICEF,only 7 cents on the dollar would wind up going to the poor starving masses.if my math is correct thats only 70 grand.
http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=4617

the fact is that the bureaucracy of charities take the mass majority of donations before ever thinking of spending a dime on the cause.
when it comes right down to it,what good does giving your wealth away to charities do when in reality it only serves to feed the machine and make executives in those charities wealthier?(the president of united states UNICEF earned $429,135 last year.)
charities are nothing more than something to make one feel all warm and fuzzy inside while in reality they are doing very little to help those in need..

 

None of them.
For all you know those children could be dead.
You don't have any right to use their images for you own agenda imo.
I understand many organisations do it.
I hate the way they do it as well.
Why don't you have the balls to ring the bell and ask the residents a few qustions.
Rather than patronising them.
For all you know some of them do "share the wealth".
Or would consider what you have to say if you win their "hearts and minds".

 

Maybe you could tell me how accurate this is

Make no mistake about the situation. Things are desperate in Zimbabwe, but contrary to media reports, it is not because of the evil or excesses of Mugabe but because of the deliberate actions of the US, UK and other European countries working through, and/or sponsoring a complex web of actors including opposition forces, NGO's, the IMF and the Western media. Contrary to the views of many, sanctions against Mugabe are not a recent act, although the sanctions have increased in severity in recent times.

The sanctions started approximately ten years ago as the Western-instigated response to the land reclamation exercise that saw land illegitimately gained by Whites repossessed and redistributed to over 300,000 Black Zimbabweans. These sanctions include denial of access to development loans, boycotting exports from Zimbabwe, discouraging foreign investment in Zimbabwe and blocking Zimbabwe's access to technology, agricultural supplies and machinery. According to one commentator: "In November 1998, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) implemented undeclared sanctions against Zimbabwe, by warning off potential investors, freezing loans and refusing to negotiate with Zimbabwean officials on the issue of debt. In September 1999, the IMF suspended its support for economic adjustment and reform in Zimbabwe. In October 1999, the International Development Association, a multilateral development bank, suspended all structural adjustment loans and credits to Zimbabwe; in May 2000 it suspended all other forms of new lending."

http://www.rastaspeaks.com/tyehimba/2008/2007.html


(1) Through economic mismanagement, undemocratic practices, and the costly deployment of troops to the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the Government of Zimbabwe has rendered itself ineligible to participate in International Bank for Reconstruction and Development and International Monetary Fund programs, which would otherwise be providing substantial resources to assist in the recovery and modernization of Zimbabwe's economy. The people of Zimbabwe have thus been denied the economic and democratic benefits envisioned by the donors to such programs, including the United States.

(2) In September 1999 the IMF suspended its support under a `Stand By Arrangement', approved the previous month, for economic adjustment and reform in Zimbabwe.

(3) In October 1999, the International Development Association (in this section referred to as the `IDA') suspended all structural adjustment loans, credits, and guarantees to the Government of Zimbabwe.

(4) In May 2000, the IDA suspended all other new lending to the Government of Zimbabwe.

(5) In September 2000, the IDA suspended disbursement of funds for ongoing projects under previously-approved loans, credits, and guarantees to the Government of Zimbabwe.

http://maravi.blogspot.com/2007/05/zimbabwe-democracy-and-economic_24.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4713961.stm

Could it be be the lack of support and finance from the IMF that is the problem not the cause? Or their debt (4 billion I believe) to the IMF is so small it would make no difference if the IMF released the 2 billion they are withholding.

P.S

I'm no fan of Mugabe - by the way

 

If the world were communist all this crap wouldn't exist.

 

^ :smilielol5:

 

well no one can help EVERYbody, no matter how much they have, but they aren't making the world a better place by braging about it, nor brining themselves a hell of a lot of gratification by doing so either.

if i could afford a fancy joint like that, myself i'd rather buy a big chunk of land out in the woods somewhere, and maybe grow bamboo and raise red pandas, or build a cross between ananda and train mountain, and build either a lot of little tiney shacks on it for people to live in, or a big rambling never ending winchester mystry house type place and let all kinds of strainge people live in all the little rooms and odd corners of its maze of hallways.

i just can't think of anything less gratifying then to throw everything away on trying to impress anyone.


=^^=
.../\...

 

maybe at least some of those people genuinely enjoy their mansions and silly little cars as much as you would enjoy your pandas...

 

maybe they are not trying to impress anyone. maybe they just like extravagant things and can afford to have them.. im sure if you could afford it you would have a million dollars worth of model trains.. im sure if you could afford it you would build a building devoted to nothing but your hobby/passion.. after all its what brings you joy and gratification...

some would look at that as well as the other things you listed as flaunting your wealth. but it would bring you gratification.
quite possibly the same can be said for those who have wealth and choose to flaunt it big houses and nice cars..

one shouldnt damn someones lifestyle simply because they would do it differently if they had wealth.. it reeks of class envy..

 

Admittedly, I'm fairly ignorant of Zimbabwe's ecoonomy. Heres an article which explains the inflation in more detail.

http://www.newzimbabwe.com/pages/inflation181.17413.html

"Zimbabwe’s fixed and unsound foreign exchange rate policy aids corruption and in turn feeds the hyperinflation. A simple example will clarify the point. Assuming one approaches the RBZ and accesses US$1000 at the official rate of US$1: Z$30,000, it means you pay the RBZ Z$30 million. Then you walk across the city to Fourth Street or take the US$1,000 to Road Port and you meet one of the RBZ’s runners who offers you a rate of US$1: Z$4,000,000.


So, for your RBZ-sourced US$1,000 you get a whooping Z$4 billion. Magic! So within one morning, Z$30 million becomes Z$4 billion. Since this is a sweeter than honey, at around 2PM you rush back your suitcases of bearer (or is it burial?) cheques to the RBZ and buy more forex. This time around, you are loaded with Z$4 billion, which can buy you a massive US$133,000. And by now, from a mere millionaire in the morning, you are now in a respectable neighbourhood with Z$533 billion (US$133, 000 times Z$ 4,000,000)."


It was an example which came to mind. It may not have been the most fitting of the situation I described.


A better example might have been the Duvalier family ruling Haiti and robbing the country blind and taking on debts which could never be repaid..



http://www.jubileeusa.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Resources/Haiti_2006.pdf

Corruption is another major cause of poverty. So is war.

 

that's what i thought. poser!!

 

No offence, but, it seemed more like you were talking about the IMF, not internal corruption. I just wondered if the IMF had a baring on this.
Given Mugabe is getting money (loans) and transfering that debt to other parties.
He seems to have managed that debt well enough.

That is still corruption.
Not initialy the IMF's issue.
I can sort of see where you are coming from regarding the IMF.
But with out them, would the debt ever be dropped at some point?

I agree.

 

You see, that would have been a better reply. I love to listen to what others have to say, and I like every other human being I am flawed, and therefore do not know everything. Really I guess I know absolutely nothing, there's just certain things I feel are "reality" and what in my mind is considered logical thought leads to what these certain things are. But, as we all live in somewhat different realities my logical thought will naturally be different than that of anyone else's and vice versa. So, with that sad, I really appreciate responses like that. It was not my intention to cause any harm, and yes I'm willing to admit perhaps I was a bit ignorant about the entire situation, but the last thing I need in order to realize my ignorance is someone claiming that I "make them sick", or should " Now quit fucking taking up so much air". There was no harm done, no negatives directed at any of you and yet there were some pretty hostile remarks for no reason. That was pretty much all you had to say, just explain the situation and help me to learn through multiple opinions and facts.

I just get overwhelmed by what I see everyday here in the U.S. even. The disrespect that is showed to others simply because they don't have as much or live a different lifestyle, doing no harm whatsoever. It's starting to get to my head, and the thoughts of everything that goes on overseas is as well. So when I see people who spend lots of money (not that much in the big scheme of things, your right) on ridiculous objects that just seem unnecessary, when right around the corner there's people who literally have to beg in order to get by (some by choice, others actually have to) or live off the waste of others it makes me very sad, angry and confused. The first two feelings I'm not a fan of, but realize they must be dealt with somehow (you can either do something about it or take the easy way out and accept it), however the confusion as to why people are fine with having so much when others have so little leads me to some like you said, "ignorant" conclusions. That's where I need people's opinions on the matter so that I can better shape mine.

So, thank you everyone who contributed to lending their knowledge in order to educate my ignorance, it's much appreciated.