second amendment threatened!

Well, as I said at the start, you should be far more worried about cancer, drunk driving or lighetening. Seriously, on the grand scale of threats, having police knock down your door and putting you in a concentration camp is wayyyy at the bottom, don't you think?

 

I am not defending the actions of the ATF agents, nor am I defending the actions of the Davidians.

It was a fucked up deal.

But the big mistake is confusing an arrest with a conviction.

All would be alive today if someone had the sense to say "this issue needs to be settled in court."

 

In the end report the government said it was the groups own firearms that started the blaze, what a bunch of hypocritical bullshit.

 

Don't forget Kathryn Johnston the 92 year old woman shot 24 times by government officers when they entered her house by mistake. They weren't even suppose to be in there, but because she fired back for own safety those murdering cunts slaughtered her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston

 

Are you really alive when the government takes everything away from you, even your own self respect? No, you're just a empty shell of a man, you're no better then dogs.

 

I have no clue what the hell you are talking about.

 

Look at the instance where the government took all the children, over 400 of them, away from their families because they lived in a polygamist commune. The government can pretty much do whatever they want, with no regards for parental rights, religious rights, political rights, etc.

The Davidians were trying to fight for their basic rights. Fighting to protect their families. The raid was handled improperly and the Davidians fought back only until the ATF ran out of ammo and stopped shooting at them.

It doesn't really matter if the Davidians were found at fault or not. The government will spin it in their favor. Of course they won't take full responsibility and admit that they f*d up. They want to show that they are still in control of their people, and prevent others from defending themselves, no matter what the collateral damage.

 

Gun violence is significantly lower in countries with stricter gun laws, even per-capita. The evil manipulation government will get you, even if you own an automatic rifle. Really, they will. They can do whatever they want.

So, better to make it harder to get guns, and downright illegal to get automatic weapons, so that fewer will get to criminals who will commit violent crimes with them.

It's not that they wont have any guns, it's not that even if they don't have guns they wont use something else, it's just common sense. Make it harder for them to get guns, make it harder for them to kill people. You might save one life, which is worth it, but I guarantee you'll save more then one. Guns make it VERY easy to kill, and guns are VERY easy to get, some people without those easy aspects would be too lazy to kill.

 

It's a careful issue. I've fired a gun before and loved it - the feeling of the recoil, it's powerful. But at the same time, I'd never want to keep a gun in my home. Especially if I have kids (which I plan to eventually).

 

Has the texan children case gone completely through the court system yet? Do you think judges just love splitting up families because some dipshit with a badge says it should be that way? Again, you are confusing arrests with convictions. You'll sleep better at night if you get a fuller view of how the system works.

Of course, Waco didn't go to the courts to be aired in a civilized manner, and a lot of children died. Pure stupidity covered over with a shitty paint job of "fighting for rights."

 

as far as I know the courts ordered those children in texas returned to their parents. any one have some real facts?

 

I unhooked my tv about the time the buses rolled up to take the children away. It seemed like a whole lot of "case dismissed" to me.

And I really dislike that mess, Waco and phantom concentration camps used as a reason why I should have my guns! ffs!

 

yeah, some good reasons to own a gun are pleasure, tradition, teaching responsibility to your kids, and helping the environment by harvesting wild meat.

 

Exactly.

 

we have several guns. for protection and for hunting.

 

I'm pretty sure your friend was pulling your leg,

here's part of what you have to go through to get 1,
How to Obtain a Concealed Weapon Permit

• An application form must be filled out. The form can be obtained from your local chief of police or sheriff or by contacting the BCI. Click here for a list of ND Chiefs of Police or ND Sheriffs
  • ND Chiefs of Police PDF
  • ND Sheriffs PDF
• A written test must be taken by the applicant and administered by a person certified by the BCI.
• Following successful completion of the test, the permit applicant must submit the following to his/her local law enforcement agency: the application, two color photos (size 1" X 1¼") and a check for $25 made payable to the ND Office of Attorney General.
• The local law enforcement agency will review the application, conduct a local background check, determine the applicant's ability to obtain the permit, and forward that information to the BCI.
• Fingerprints will be taken at the local law enforcement agency and submitted to the BCI with the application.
• The BCI performs state and national background checks on each applicant. Additionally, each applicant's fingerprints are searched through the regional Automated Fingerprint Identification System.
• Upon approval by the director of the BCI, the applicant is issued a permit that is valid for a period of three years.

North Dakota Permits for Nonresidents

• Nonresidents of North Dakota can apply for a North Dakota Concealed Weapon Permit. Contact the BCI at (701) 328-5523 for an application and information regarding certified instructors.
• Follow the instructions above for obtaining the permit.

Age Required to Apply for a Permit

• Eighteen

Testing Requirements, Fees, and Test Administrator Information

• Testing must be conducted by test administrators certified by the BCI. Many law enforcement agencies throughout North Dakota have officers who can conduct the tests. A list of certified test administrators is posted on this page, or you can contact your local law enforcement agency for information on test administrators in your area.
  • Certified Test Administrators PDF
• The maximum fee that test administrators may charge is twenty-five dollars for each written test.
• The written test is open book and consists of ten questions.

Where to Get a Personal Photo

• Any business that takes passport photos will be able to take the photos for you.
• Some law enforcement agencies may also take the photos for you.
• Polaroid photos may work, but please keep in mind that the photos must contain a head and shoulders shot that is 1" X 1¼

Permit Renewal Process

• Prior to expiration, a reminder card notifying the permit holder of the need to renew is mailed to the last known address provided to BCI.
• The renewal process may be started no earlier than 45 days prior to the permit expiration date and no later than 90 days after the permit expiration date.
• The standard application form is used for renewals. The renewal box at the top of the application should be checked.
• Approval for renewal must be obtained by the chief of police and the sheriff in the city and county in which the applicant resides.
• Repeating the written test is not required for timely renewals.
• Submission of fingerprints is not required for timely renewals.
• Two 1" X 1¼" color photos must be attached.
• A $25 check made to the Office of Attorney General must be included.
• If the renewal process is not started within the designated period (45 days prior to expiration and up to 90 days after expiration), the individual must begin as a new applicant by taking the test again, etc.

Reasons a Permit Might be Denied

• Any material misstatement made in the application process by the applicant.
• The applicant is prohibited by state or federal law from owning, possessing, or having a firearm under that person's control.
• For any other good and valid cause as determined by the Chief Agent of the Bureau of Criminal Investigation and subject to review. (This section will not be used arbitrarily to deny or revoke a permit.)

If There is a Change in the Permit Holder's Address

• The following information should be forwarded in writing to the BCI:
  • Full name
  • Permit number
  • Old address
  • New address
• An updated permit will be issued at the permit holder's request. A new set of pictures must be provided. No fee will be charged.

Source


This i can guarantee, not 1 person at this gun show walked out with a actual ccw permit "other than those that already had one ".

The ccw permit is only valid for 3 years, if they didn't take it from someone after a felony conviction "which is possible they might miss" i doubt that same person could get a renewal.

 

well, that clears that up.

 

Discussing gun control always brings up some interesting conversation, and often shows the hypocrisy in people. Banning guns is okay because it may save lives, but using SIGINT to save lives is violating freedom Can of worms......now opening.

 

eh. they both need to be regulated. Well. The constitution does a good job of telling us that.

not much of a can of worms.

I like guns, and want to hunt. I like security too, and liberty. They all need to be managed carefully. No false dilemmas there.

 

Yeah you need a FBI background check to get a concealed permit license.

And some state you have to take safety and shooting classes.