Say No ! To Id Cards !!!!!

well either you work for the government or the police or you havent really faced their politics from the perspective of being against them. Maybe you have never been harmed by the police or had any injustice from them but once I was being harrassed by the police simply because I told one of them that I felt his foul language was terrible for a police officer on duty - he had stopped us to do a spot check on the vehicle I was driving and then he discovered we had been out flyposting for a band we were in. He started swearing and whatnot and we just said well you know if thats youre attitude w'll report you - you cant call us bastards etc?

after that for about 6 weeks I was pulled over no less than 20 times and in the finish I just went to the police station and made a complaint saying I would take it to court unless their harrassment stopped and that if I was stopped 1 more time by them within a month I would have my solicitor breathing down their necks. Well it just stopped like that - never been pulled over by the cops in all the 20 years since

But when you face that kind of harrassment its just not pleasant and puts you against the police. I have never been convicted of anything but the odd minor traffic offence but nearly every encounter I have had with the police is bad - I saw them beat a woman in her fiftys or 60's to the floor with battons once - they are incredible arseholes !
I been arrested a couple of times at demo's but theyy just let me go after about 10 hours

 

No

No

No

I've had the odd bad cop. The majority have been very good and helpful.
You should report bad policing attitudes, that is your right.

Well policing 20 years ago is a lot different that it is now. I'm glad the 'harrasment' stopped. You must appreciate that a lot has altered over 20 years.

I can appreciate that.

Some are, nop doubt.That is the case in all proffesions. i just look at them as individuals.

I think we run in differing circles.

 

Let The Asylum Seekers Coming To The Uk. Carry Them. Leave The Citizens Of This Country Alone We Are Born And Bred Here And Pay Taxes. We Know Who We Are We Don't Know Who They Are. So They Are People That Should Be Made To Carry Id Cards Not Us.

 

Well that would make it much more difficult to integrate communities. The whole point of allowing people into the country would not be to create segregated communities, but an integrated society. Having yellow stars of Davids on people's arms really isn't going to help matters. Ok, that's a bit extreme, but the point stants. The reason the French banned the headscarf was to integrate the Muslim population into secular France. If you've made an immigrant a citizen of the host country, then the state's aim is to assimilate them into the population, not make them stand out from it. That's why immigrants are being increasingly required to learn English and will have to swear oathes to Britain and to the Queen. Making one rule for the natives and another for Johnny Foreigner is going to leave us with a very divided society. Better simply to avoid ID cards altogether....

 

Also, how do you mean we know who we are? That's an interesting statement that cuts to the heart of nationalism as an immagined community. Benedict Anderson argues, compellingly I would say, that nationalism first arises where the old certainties of society, such as Latin and the divine right of kings, break down, whilst print capitalism emerges. With one language, written in the dominant vernacular, given the fixity of print, unified fields of communication are created. This opened the door, through which people became aware of millions of others who shared their language and nationality, a common tongue amongst the diverse range of regional dialects. Fundamentally it served to unite these people and, ultimately, divide them from those who did not share that language. However this is not a real community, it is an imagine community because because, although each citizen is aware of both their own connection to the nation, and of the fact that millions of others share this connection, they will never meet most of their fellow citizens. Nationalism is, for Anderson, a social construction, arising from the imagined community, linking all of its members by the idea of a community, rather than a physical community. I don't know Joe Bloggs down the street any better than I know Mohammad Bloggs. The point being, we don't actually know who we are, we just think we know who we are and define that as oppositional to the others we don't know who don't share our language, and derived from that, our cultural traits and histories....

 

I fail to understand all the paranoia over this; it isn't like we're going to be watched in the privacy of our own homes, now, is it? So what's this 'lack of privacy' nonsense? We don't have that in public, anyway, thanks to all the CCTV cameras, so what's the problem?

I trust you all realise that the 'powers that be' already have all your details, several times over, anyway?

I break the law every single day, and I'm not worried... If it helps catch real criminals, then I'm all for it. And if it helps rid the street of gobby little yobs, fucking bring it!

All this 'Fear Of A Utilitarian Planet' stuff is just the product of media scaremongering...

 

For one, they don't have everyone's fingerprints, DNA and iris scans. These would be new databases for non-criminals. Moreover, it isn't about what the ID cards mean in themselves. You've already mentioned examples of encroaching government surveillance in CCTV. None of these measures are, in themselves, particularly worrying. Indeed CCTV has many positive benefits. What is potentially troubling is the net effect. No one is saying that this will, or even may lead to a totalitarian society. That's just fantasy. However, freedoms are not taken away in a single night, they're eroded slowly, and justified in the name of public safety. You can only resist while you're still free. Once your freedoms have gone, there's nothing you can do about it. You might scream all you like into your history books, telling the people of Weimar Germany what they were complicitly permitting, but it would be to no avail. The only time you can act is now....

 

Sorry But I Know Who I Am And What I Represent As A Citizen Of The Uk. The Foreginers Coming In To This Country Through The Asylum Policy Have There Own Agendas And As Been Proven On Many Occasions Are Not Intrested In Being Aligned With Us. They Are Creating Social Injustices In This Country. And Instead Of Trying To Integrate With Our Society They Are Using Our Legal System To Screw As Much Out Of Us As They Can Get There Hands On. This Mess Should Have Never Been Allowed To Happen In The First Place.

 

I dunno, Peace; I still think it's just mass hysteria, personally...

Like I said, if you have nothing to hide, why would you be bothered about having your dabs put on file? If they aren't going to show up at a murder scene, what's the problem?

I don't care, anyway; I'll be living in the simple life in the Ardeche long before it goes all '1984' here

 

Have a nice time.

http://europa.eu.int/idabc/en/document/1599/335
http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/chapter/355

 

Doesn't matter... I'm not paranoid enough to care... Like I say, I have nothing to hide.

Well, except my drug use, but you know, if you aren't prepared to do the time, don't do the crime. If I was caught, I'd put my hands up; I'm not proud.

And if it stops my mum being mugged in the market, then bring it.

In any case, France is completely unlike England in it's politics... which is one of the many reasons I intend to emigrate.

 

Alrighty Captain Englightened....

 

Neither am i. It was just to say moving to France aint going to get you away from ID cards.. i appreciate now - you do not give a toss for the 1984esque slippery slopes many claim here. So much for me attempting to frighten you
I don't buy into much of the anti ID card 'stuff' - but it is always worth thinking the arguements through - so have appreciated speaking to some people here.

In what way ?.

I notice there have been some protests from French anti ID card groups.

I'm not French and do not know 'French politics' so would like to know a few of the differences [as far as the ID issue is concerned].

 

Way to much generalisations for my liking. A few to many of 'They' and not enough of 'Some'.

 

Agreed, it was bordering on the racist I'd say....

 

I'd say so - many of my friends come out with the same things. Even though their ancestory can be traced back to 'foreigners' . Because they are white - they think that gives them the right to think they have the full ownership of these shores.

I suspect it is difficult for him to question ones own heritage and think these same issues would have effected your ancestory. Something i think he should think about.

 

I don't like this "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" argument. There are some very real civil liberties concerns which are subtle but nonetheless important. Compulsory ID cards are basically a license to exist in the country. This is a fundamental reversal of our traditional freedoms, whereby we are assumed innocent and free, and the government require exceptional justification to interfere with our lives. Compulsory ID reverses this tradition, meaning we are required to justify our presence to the government. Yes, a subtle point of principle, but rather a key one.

The problem is the potential for future abuses of this kind of system, not that Britain will overnight become a police state. But putting in place the full apparatus of a police state and relying on the good will of the government of the day not to abuse it is never a particularly good idea.

 

I have never read anything as stupid as this in my whole life.
I would wager you are of the 'looz your id card, looz your id maaaan' school of thought as well.
ID cards are a fantastic idea.






I'm just siding here because I want to distance myself from this fool.

 

You have to get up pretty early in the morning to frighten me... I'm pretty horizontal.

Basically, we Froggies do not take things lying down; we do not le governmnts bend us over and insert the broom handle. If we do not ilke something, we strike and demo until we get our own way. We don't just sit around moaning, because we know that is not effective.

If France decides it isn't having ID cards, it won't be forced to have them, no way, no how; if it has them forcefully foisted upon it, it will begin to 'accidentally' lose them all over the place.

French people are spiky and a little self-righteous, but we get results; governments and corporate bodies don't push the French public around. Never have, never will. Despite what the governmnt wants, it is really the people that run France. We ned more of that here; Dunkirk Spirit!

I have been accused of being prickly, aggressive, even dogmatic, but I get my own way without treading on anyone important's toes, and very, very rarely does anyone try to shit on me, if they know what to expect... This is the French way, and it serves me well.

In short, we get the job done

 

Well, as far as I'm aware France has had compulsory ID cards for a very long time. I think I had to get my 'Carte de Sejour' when I turned 16 when I lived in France, and you had to produce it for the police on request. There is a fundamental difference between a legal system based on the Napoleonic code and ours based in common law. The individual has traditionally been separate from the state in this country - bound by its laws but not answerable to the state. In France, the people and the state are one and the same. I would argue France has never had the traditions of individual freedom from state interference that Britain has had for a very long time...