Republican, Democrat, liberal, ...

u totally missed the point.

But that’s my problem, how am I meant to get the point if you are unwilling to explain what the point is?

I didnt fully explain what I meant with the deepression thing because this is not a debate! i DON'T WANT THIS THREAD RUNNING OFF INTO DIFFERENT ISSUES BUT IF U FEEL YOU ARE THAT MUCH SMARTER THAN ME I CAN BREAK IT DOWN TO YOU AND EXPLINA THE THING WITH DEPRESSION. Other than that, if you dont get it I cant do anything.

You don’t want this thread running of into different issues, but what were the issues? ‘Us’ getting together to create a better world, my problem with that is if you don’t know what 'better' is how can anyone achieve it?

I don’t know if you are smarter than me or not, I’m older, have probably read more have a lot more experience (but not in talking to some 14 year olds it seems) but those things don’t necessarily make people smarter.

All I’m looking for is answers

 

Motherearth

People can be ‘real’ and ‘speak from the heart’ but that doesn’t mean that the policies they support are any good. So I’m glad you don’t just rely on that but, do research. So since you must have already done this type of research I presume you can say “how things should be”?
So what policies of such candidates do you like?
I mean you are thinking of supporting a certain Republican presidential candidate what are the policies that most attract you to him/her?

**

Is wondering why people don’t answer questions and are unwilling to enter into open and honest debate really ‘paranoia’ or just healthy suspicion?
I mean it is possible that you are biased since the person frantically dodging the questions is you?
Again I ask why is it that you think following blindly is a good ideas? I mean because someone asks you questions to find out what you stand for you instantly begin accusing them of wanting to ‘divide and conquer’.
But to me this is just seems like another attempt to get out of answering anything.
I mean you’re still not answering them.

**

“to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness”

And that’s what was done in the Constitution; they instituted a new form of government, one that suited the time and factions involved in drawing it up.
If you want to overthrow the present governmental system all I’m asking is what form of government would you put in its place and what principles would it be based on?
Why is it you seem so reluctant to answer?

**

Also the policies that the new government organisation then instituted were put forward by the people that made up that government, things like the type of laws and regulations, the amount of tax raised and what it was to be spent on etc.
All I’m asking is what policies you would like to enact?
Again why is it that you seem so reluctant to answer?

**

I’ve heard the cry “We need MUCH LESS government interferance in our lives!!!” many times but it is just empty rhetoric if you do not explained what you actually mean by it. What is ‘much less’, what is meant by ‘interference’ and in what areas is this ‘interference’ to be ‘much less’?
For example I’ve had right wing libertarians saying similar things but what has come out is that what they mean by it is - low or no taxation, giving the already rich an advantage. Few regulations, once more favouring the wealthy. Little or no state welfare provision making it more difficult for people to get out of poverty. Having to pay for healthcare, education or training again giving the richer an advantage. And repeal of all controls on wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and the abolition of employment laws that you hurt the poorer in society to the advantage of the rich.

To me that is about creating an oligarchy not a free and just society.
So what do you mean by We need MUCH LESS government interferance in our lives!!!”?

**

Don’t you find pleasure in the things you are passionate about?
Yes some people do take politic seriously their the ones that come here to talk honestly and openly about their political ideas, others come here to sprout rhetoric and refuse to enter into any type of open and honest debate.
And it is often hilarious just how far the latter will go to get out of answering questions or explaining anything.

**

It should be OBVIOUS what I stand for.

Why, you refuse to answer questions or explain anything? You say that you would only support someone that you had researched but what if that person had no information on them, nothing to say what they stood for or what policies they would enact and what if they refused to answer questions or explain anything would you still support them?

And by the way, I've timed this and so far it has taken me 45 minutes just to answer YOU. Don't you feel even the slightest bit SELFISH?

Why should I feel selfish, you’re the one that prefers to go on rather long rhetorical rants so you can get out of saying anything, when it would have been much quicker just to answer the questions and given a few explanations?
To me you seem to be spending a hell of a lot of time and effort trying to hide the fact you’re actually saying nothing, why is that?

**

BIG difference between "liking a spot of gardening" and growing food as a necessity so you don't go hungry.

It is ‘necessary’ for you to grow your own food? What about people that don’t have the land to grow their own? Under your new world order would those without land be given it, so they too can ‘survive’? If so where does that land come from?

**

Plenty questions allowed. Just don't forget, this being "hip forums" you can EXPECT that a large number of folks will be past the dickering and picking and want to move on to action.

But that’s the problem what action are they supposed to take? What things are they working toward, what are they expecting to achieve?

I want a better world and I’m quiet happy to discuss what I think might make it better, you seem unwilling to say what you would want so, how does anyone know if the world you are working for would be a better place or not?


**

 

Hey, sorry ahead of time to everybody who gets sick and tired of folks arguing and ranting, but this guy makes a great subject..... "intellectual weight lifting"

"""People can be ‘real’ and ‘speak from the heart’ but that doesn’t mean that the policies they support are any good. So I’m glad you don’t just rely on that but, do research. So since you must have already done this type of research I presume you can say “how things should be”?
So what policies of such candidates do you like?
I mean you are thinking of supporting a certain Republican presidential candidate what are the policies that most attract you to him/her? """

I ain't gonna spend an eternity spelling out all the details you seem to require as I'm not running for office... Lets just say that Hugo Chavez speaks to me...
**

"""Is wondering why people don’t answer questions and are unwilling to enter into open and honest debate really ‘paranoia’ or just healthy suspicion?
I mean it is possible that you are biased since the person frantically dodging the questions is you?
Again I ask why is it that you think following blindly is a good ideas? I mean because someone asks you questions to find out what you stand for you instantly begin accusing them of wanting to ‘divide and conquer’.
But to me this is just seems like another attempt to get out of answering anything.
I mean you’re still not answering them. """

Either we are not speaking the same language or you must be an idiot. Sorry. Use your brain if you have one, or do you just run on coins?

**

“to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness”

And that’s what was done in the Constitution; they instituted a new form of government, one that suited the time and factions involved in drawing it up.
If you want to overthrow the present governmental system all I’m asking is what form of government would you put in its place and what principles would it be based on?
Why is it you seem so reluctant to answer? ****

I'm not at all reluctant. I want a government which allows me to be myself, doesn't have to know how many times I shit per day, allows me to live in whatever way I choose as long as I'm not hurting anyone. I want a government which does not treat me like the enemy. I would rather live in the woods under a rock and hunt for food rather than have to put up with The EVIL which has corrupted the government. And I am dead serious.
I want all policies to run with compassion and humility and human relations put first and foremost.


"""""Also the policies that the new government organisation then instituted were put forward by the people that made up that government, things like the type of laws and regulations, the amount of tax raised and what it was to be spent on etc.
All I’m asking is what policies you would like to enact?
Again why is it that you seem so reluctant to answer? """""

Jezus! you didn't hear anything I've said so far...
Man, there's something wrong with you. You want to pick at people and demand answers to millions of questions as if I were running for office or something. You are obsessed. YOU WANT ANSWERS!!!!!!!!! But if anyone wants to dissect YOUR posts, they have to do it elsewhere???

**

I’ve heard the cry “We need MUCH LESS government interferance in our lives!!!” many times but it is just empty rhetoric if you do not explained what you actually mean by it. What is ‘much less’, what is meant by ‘interference’ and in what areas is this ‘interference’ to be ‘much less’?
For example I’ve had right wing libertarians saying similar things but what has come out is that what they mean by it is - low or no taxation, giving the already rich an advantage. Few regulations, once more favouring the wealthy. Little or no state welfare provision making it more difficult for people to get out of poverty. Having to pay for healthcare, education or training again giving the richer an advantage. And repeal of all controls on wages, prices, rents, profits, production, and the abolition of employment laws that you hurt the poorer in society to the advantage of the rich.

To me that is about creating an oligarchy not a free and just society.
So what do you mean by We need MUCH LESS government interferance in our lives!!!”?

-------->So, you asked this already, over and over again. Probably not satisfied with the answers. Probably never will be.

**

""""Don’t you find pleasure in the things you are passionate about?
Yes some people do take politic seriously their the ones that come here to talk honestly and openly about their political ideas, others come here to sprout rhetoric and refuse to enter into any type of open and honest debate.
And it is often hilarious just how far the latter will go to get out of answering questions or explaining anything.""""

_------> I get it, you think you are somehow SPECIAL and must be treated as ROYALTY...

**

It should be OBVIOUS what I stand for.

Why, you refuse to answer questions or explain anything? You say that you would only support someone that you had researched but what if that person had no information on them, nothing to say what they stood for or what policies they would enact and what if they refused to answer questions or explain anything would you still support them?

------>You gotta be outta your mind....


And by the way, I've timed this and so far it has taken me 45 minutes just to answer YOU. Don't you feel even the slightest bit SELFISH?

Why should I feel selfish, you’re the one that prefers to go on rather long rhetorical rants so you can get out of saying anything, when it would have been much quicker just to answer the questions and given a few explanations?
To me you seem to be spending a hell of a lot of time and effort trying to hide the fact you’re actually saying nothing, why is that?

----->because at this point, I could give a damn. Long retorical rants? Look at yourself!!!!!I don't have to answer to you and the more you demand and act like a fool, the less answers you will get. Don't you have even enough sense to realise that if I or anyone else were to try to answer ALL your questions in the detail which you require, it would take weeks if not months to lay it all out? It ain't that easy. And again I AIN'T RUNNIN' FOR PRESIDENT.

**

BIG difference between "liking a spot of gardening" and growing food as a necessity so you don't go hungry.

It is ‘necessary’ for you to grow your own food? What about people that don’t have the land to grow their own? Under your new world order would those without land be given it, so they too can ‘survive’? If so where does that land come from?

------->You are just friggin' nosey. And picky, and obnoxious. Fuck all your questions. Check out Hugo Chavez and then come back. But NO MORE QUESTIONS!!!!!! I ain't answerin' 'em.

**

Plenty questions allowed. Just don't forget, this being "hip forums" you can EXPECT that a large number of folks will be past the dickering and picking and want to move on to action.

But that’s the problem what action are they supposed to take? What things are they working toward, what are they expecting to achieve?

I want a better world and I’m quiet happy to discuss what I think might make it better, you seem unwilling to say what you would want so, how does anyone know if the world you are working for would be a better place or not?


**[/QUOTE]
Idiot. By the way, you ain't even an amerikan citizen. what the hell ya doin' rewriting the constitution for us? Why are ya so bloody (british term) worried about it anyhow? Folks with too many questions get on my last nerve. Too much like cops...

 

motherearth

Let me get this straight, you’re saying the only presidential candidate worth voting for is a Republican.

But you have also said that you do extensive research on the people you would vote for to see if they have policies you agree with.

And the policies you agree with are those of Hugo Chavez.

Can you tell me which Republican presidential candidate you believe has policies that mirror those of Hugo Chavez?

**

As to the rest of your reply it just seems like more rhetoric and some tactical righteous indignation used in the hope that people will not realise you’ve still left the questions unanswered and still refuse to give rational explanations.

Sorry but if you remove all the huffing and puffing and name calling, what you are left with is next to nothing. I mean you call me an idiot with a coin operated brain, who wanting to be special and royal, and is insane, nosey, pricky and obnoxious.

But you don’t actually answer the questions.

**

For example here is a perfect example piece of rhetoric put forward as clarification.

“I want a government which allows me to be myself, doesn't have to know how many times I shit per day, allows me to live in whatever way I choose as long as I'm not hurting anyone. I want a government which does not treat me like the enemy.”

This is that old victim thing you’ve used before, it’s political manipulation, used by people that want your support but don’t want to say what they stand for. It’s been used around the world for centuries against supposed threats, the Jewish conspiracy, communism, drugs and recently about terrorism.

Think about it, what policies have been presented to actually tackle the problems been highlighted?

None.

The American people blindly believed in the communist threat and they got Vietnam and Iran-contra, the war on drugs has eroded civil liberties and allowed the civil war in Columbia to continue, they blindly believed in the terrorist threat and they got Iraq.

Now some people are arguing that the government is the threat. But again they want people to follow blindly and seem very reluctant to say what their policies would be to tackle the problem.

**

“I would rather live in the woods under a rock and hunt for food rather than have to put up with The EVIL which has corrupted the government”

This is an appeal to the American frontier fantasy, the belief that anyone can just strike out into the wilderness and be free (or having a ‘survival’ garden). But it’s a myth along with things like the ‘American Dream’ and ‘manifest destiny’.

The present population of the US would have to drop dramatically for a return to a homestead economy and even more to go back to hunter gathering.

It pushes buttons in the American psyche because of taught responses, but actually looked at rationally it means next to nothing.

That is probably why my question about the survival garden was only answered by name calling.

**

“And I am dead serious.
I want all policies to run with compassion and humility and human relations put first and foremost.”

LOL of course you are, but then nobody that wants someone to think well of them is going to say anything else. Imagine someone saying ‘I want all policies to run with hatred and arrogance and human relations to be put last and hindmost’ they are not likely to win hearts and minds are they?

Remember many right wingers think the most ‘compassionate’ thing to do with the poor is to remove all state welfare and provision, so that they can be ‘free’.

Also remember how we were told that invading Iraq was the ‘compassionate’ thing to do so we could save the people form a vicious tyrant.

**

"By the way, you ain't even an amerikan citizen. what the hell ya doin' rewriting the constitution for us? Why are ya so bloody (british term) worried about it anyhow?"

Oh the patriotic appeal – hey folks this limey is dissing our constitution quick grab a rope and let’s have us an old style lynching.

The thing is that the US, even if it may be a declining power, still has a great influence on the world. It has the world’s largest military budget (plus some 200 bases scattered around the world) a huge number of nuclear weapons (attached to intercontinental missiles) and its economy is integral to the worlds.

If has interfered many times, politically, militarily and economically in the affairs of a large number of independent states around the globe.

(The thing is that only occasionally do many Americans actually seem to become aware of this)

At the same time to me the US’s political system is just not working, and the society and it’s people often seem to have some irrationally ideas.

I believe that America could be a great force for good but it is hampered by these problems. What I’ve been trying to do is try and work out why so many Americans don’t seem willing to do anything about them.

As I’ve commented before a new constitution might help but at least I’m open and honest about it you say you want radical change but you seem very reluctant to actually say what changes you want.

You do say that “I ain't gonna spend an eternity spelling out all the details you seem to require as I'm not running for office... Lets just say that Hugo Chavez speaks to me..”

I’ve actually defended the polices of Hugo Chavez’s government a few times on these forums but as I’ve said I’m confused as to which Republican presidential candidate you are thinking of voting for, you believe has adopted these policies?

Things like recognition of communist Cuba, huge hikes in state welfare programmes and the state ownership of key economic resources.

**

 

Ron Paul. There does that make you happy now? I don't agree with every single thing he says (right to life) but he is the best we could hope for. Do NOT expect me to go into a lengthy recital of every single policy I accept and every one I reject. Cause I won't do it.

It most certainly IS possible for those with interest to go live in the woods and out of the system. That ain't no myth. Ever hear of the old "back to the land" movement? Ever hear of "Rainbow Family"? You are so busy pumping yourself up you don't take time to know what you are talking about. Sorry if YOU aren't able to do the same.

By the way, I googled Goodstock just to see what came up, I see that you don't tend to look any farther than the first one or two listings. Is that any indication of how YOU research something? You probably ought to stop harping on things you don't know anything about.

Now, go take your meds and when you settle down, go take a hike.

 

Oh the libertarian minded congressman

So can you explain how his views mirror those of Hugo Chavez?

**

But the back to the land movement was based on those with the ability to buy land and the capital to keep going until it became self sustaining. And since for many it is about survival not profit there is little possibility of getting loans to purchase such plots. At the same time such people would need capital just in case something went wrong, such as healthcare issues or weather damage.

The point being not everyone has the money to just go off and set up a homestead land is all owned in the US either privately or publicly and has to be purchased. And it isn’t an option for everyone as pointed out it just wouldn’t be possible.

 

Jenna Bush can afford to buy 98,840 acres of land in Chaco, Paraguay.

 

I don't remember that as being one of the reasons to start the war with Iraq. Weren't we trying to find WMD, and protect and support the UN resolutions that had been ignored? Even though inspectors had been allowed back in?

 

Any of you ever stopped and thought ? It dont matter who you vote for, they all end up buddies in the same place, about 1000 people with the agenda that THEY are government. The government is not the party of majority. The government is all the parties monopolising the majority.

I'm gonna shoot the balls off the first person who is so naive they think that political parties are really in opposition to one and another

You live in a one party state where there are merely superflous wings to the theoretical positions, but they all agree on one thing that the balance of power is just and that the rich should be in power

 

"""Oh the libertarian minded congressman
So can you explain how his views mirror those of Hugo Chavez? """

------->I could, but I don't feel like it, can I be excused now?


But the back to the land movement was based on those with the ability to buy land and the capital to keep going until it became self sustaining. And since for many it is about survival not profit there is little possibility of getting loans to purchase such plots. At the same time such people would need capital just in case something went wrong, such as healthcare issues or weather damage.

The point being not everyone has the money to just go off and set up a homestead land is all owned in the US either privately or publicly and has to be purchased. And it isn’t an option for everyone as pointed out it just wouldn’t be possible.


You don't get it. There's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to survive.
I was part of the back to the land movement before there even was one. I've never had any money to buy land. Have you ever heard of "caretakers"? Have you ever heard of "squatters"? By the way, having never had money, I have lived on 8 different farms, never had to pay rent, and am about to become the owner of one which I have taken care of for 20 years...

OPEN UP YOUR MIND TO SOME ALTERNATE POSSIBILITIES.

 

Thank God for u!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was trying to bring my thread in that direction but some body side tracked it into the very direction I was trying to avoid! lol thanks

 

Thank YOU!!! AMEN. Just like I already said, there are occasionally good guys with good intentions, but they don't have a chance in hell against the flow...
I'm outa here.
:leaving: