But Germany just has a defense army. Seems to stop them running off to the Middle East every time George tells them to
In theory, yeah. But the irony is that the vast majority of people who buy poppies don't think twice about what it means. So it's an entirely empty statement anyway.
yup!! although i suspect those pomp parades started out as a way of getting the people who suffered out of their pensioner's pads to let them know we care.
i think it is all really a very personal thing, and you can be a vengeful warmonger and wear your poppy thinking of the way that so many people have lost there lives to protect their country that you too must do all that you can to keep it safe, be that with wars and all this crazy shit. alternatively you can wear your poppy and remember the huge death tolls and how sick we are as humans to take part and suport such messed up behaviour. the fact is the poppy isn't what is important it is it's symoblism to the wearer, the best example i can think of is the swastica, this symbol is an acient rune and before used by hitler had symbolism for alot of good things but he twisted it's meaning and now the thing is aparently "ileagal". symbols are important and the swastica has many important symbolisms that should be used today just because one person misuses it doesn't mean it should be abolished.
the fact is the poppy isn't what is important it is it's symoblism to the wearer, the best example i can think of is the swastica, this symbol is an acient rune and before used by hitler had symbolism for alot of good things but he twisted it's meaning and now the thing is aparently "ileagal". symbols are important and the swastica has many important symbolisms that should be used today just because one person misuses it doesn't mean it should be abolished.[/QUOTE] Yeah I agree with that. Although I'm never going to go out and wear a red (or white) poppy because I can't think of any use for it other than empty symbolism. If I wanted to wear a symbol to represent the tragedies of war I'd wear something else (not sure which symbol though). I don't think this rememberance thing should be imposed on anyone either. Like Showmet said, let the individual decide if and how they want to remember the victims of the 2 world wars, or of any wars.
and for some people that means a display of military strength. The poppy originally symbolised the losses from the great war, the symbolism has moved on from there however those losses will always be close the hearts of soldiers. I guess all the pomp surrounding the rememberance ceremonies at whitehall is bringing home some of the pride these people felt about how they defended their countries. As much as I dislike the military they are totally necessary in the world we live in. To exist and be of use they need discipline and order, which includes uniforms, marching and weapon management ... if a bunch of hippies went into military service they'd last 5 minutes. However the majority of people who join the forces do so because they either think they are making a wise career move or they want to serve the country. The forces do a lot more than just fight battles and wars. They also don't get to choose whose wars they fight. The government makes that decision for them. The hypocrites at the cenotaph aren't the soldiers, the hypocrites are the government representatives who send them to their slaughter one day and lay wreaths for them the next.
Words of wisdom from Ghandi,(paraphrased) "want to see a change in the world, first you have to make that change in yourself" just cause there is a phyco about with a gun doesn't mean i think i need one to protect myself from him. just cause there is a bully at school doesn't mean i think i need to hit him back. there are plenty neutral countries that are getting along fine and dandy.
Nor do Palau, Panama, San Marino, Solomon Islands, Dominica, Gambia, Iceland, Vanuata, Lichesnstein, Marshall Islands, Monaco or Mauritius for that matter.
You're absolutely correct. Unfortunately, pomp and ceremony also has the side effect of sanitising and glamorising war. Bit confused by what you mean here. The military may be necessary on some levels, but it's main function is still imperialistic. This was never my experience. All the kids I knew who went on to join the army when I was at school basically like the idea of playing with guns. Also, while they certainly didn't understand the true nature of war, they were quite keen on killing people. Are you saying that soldiers are basically top blokes who've signed up for a life of selfless servies? I'm not sure what you're driving at. But if you don't want to get sent off to fight imperialistic wars by a government, then joining the army probably isn't a smart move.
Indeed No arguments from me there, in my eyes the military should exist for civil defence, whether they do that is debateable. Not my experience, the one person I knew who wanted to join the army just for the killing was actually turned down. I'm saying many soldiers have their hearts in the right place. Just not their minds. There are always going to be nutters but WW1 and 2 was more about conscription ... choice didn't come into it for the majority of our war dead. I wonder if more people or less people would be attracted to the military if they knew we never got involved in any war that wasn't directly connected with civil defence?
Yeah, the world wars were an entirely different case. I'm sure as well that given the different nature of our society at the time, a lot of people were motivated by an honest wish to defend their country. A less cynical time. I really doubt it. I do wonder how many people would be attracted to the military if they actually understood what real violence was like though.
