Relationships and Sacrifices

i just cant agree with this, im sorry, but there are always circumstances that illicit change for the right one....mine are a perfect example, or someone else i know had to quit smoking because the other person was allergic....so...i dont know, i just find this all very hard to swallow.

 

i am not with anyone. i've spent the better part of my twenties with men that were wrong with me and men that made me feel like i should change to be with them. That is why I'm so sure of my viewpoint on the matter I've learned that lesson through trial and error. I plan on staying single until I meet someone that suits me perfectly, someone i can be myself with.

Initially, I would not. I'm not ashamed of anything about my lifestyle so if someone else doesn't like it, then they are not the one for me. I don't think thats what youre referring to though.... In a committed relationship, I can certainly see how one might have to change their lifestyle in order to support their partner. Preferably I hope to end up in a relationship in which our goals coincide to the point where neither of us really has to make sacrifices for the other.

 

I guess the main thing is you shouldn't have to change your personality.

 

ashamed? what?

i dont see the relevance to that, nor do i believe you truly understand the magnitude of which i'm speaking of. sacrafice isnt a negative thing, and the sooner you realize this the better off you'll be.

i wouldnt change any of my choices or any part of my life because its hard to deal with and at times unsatisfying....at the end of the day i know, mmore than ive ever known anything before that he is my true love- and i would walk to the end of the earth and back just to have him be a part of my life.

 

i said I didn't think thats what you were referring to, and followed up with a statement in response to what I thought you meant. but lifestyle changes could mean one of two things: changing your lifestyle in order to support your significant other's goals in life, or changing your lifestyle because a partner doesn't like the way you live your life. I like the way I live my life and I don't plan to change it for anyone. i also have my own goals in life and don't really plan on changing them to suit someone else's goals.

we are two diffferent people, and my viewpoint comes from the way I was raised. my mom was a crusader for single, independent women everywhere, and she raised me to believe that I should never put a man's priorities in front of my own. I may end up alone because of it, but at least i'll know i never sacrificed a piece of myself for someone else.

I don't think sacrifice is an entirely negative thing. Your situation is admirable and I am sure the sacrifices have been well worth it because you are with the one you love. However, have you ever changed who you are at the core for your husband? I doubt it. That is what i refer to when i say someone should not have to change. The sacrifices you've made have been a result of your circumstances, but at the core of it all you and your husband are probably able to make it work because you love and accept each other exactly as you are. Once you start sacrificing pieces of yourself for the other person, i think the sacrifice becomes negative.

 

How do we make mature choices in choosing a relationship?

How do we make mature choices in making sacrifices in a relationship?

Is maturity relevant?

 

Maybe I'm mistaken,

It seems that these statements claim maturity in relationships.
Can relationships be both equal and hierarchical?

 

I am defining sacrifice as giving up something you prefer to keep. Can you give an example of a sacrifice for a relationship that does not involve changing some circumstance or behavior in order to better accommodate the wishes of the other person? Sacrifice is a form of self denial.
As I say, relationships work best when you have something to share. When you share a thing it remains yours as well as belonging to the person you share it with, creating a net increase, adding common value.

 

I never ask anything other from a person I am with than to be himself. If he changes himself or his behavior then it wouldn't be him. I either want to be with him for who he is or not. If not then it just doesn't work out. some things don't. If he changes himself to what he thinks I want him to be, or asks me to change in some way then that means building a relationship on lies. I wouldn't want any part of that. It either works with both parties remaining their true selves or it doesn't work. If either has to start changing something about themself then that is a sign that it's not working.

 

my last date had me sacrifice a goat. It still didn't work out, mostly because they wouldn't let me into the restaurant covered in blood.

 

Not in any way to belittle your experience. When you say, "trust me when I say my family and I have had to make a lot of sacrifices", it means that the life style you have chosen is demanding of you. I hear sounds of exasperation.

Everyone faces the prospect at every moment that their loved one may not return when they leave the house. It is not a fact that requires being a soldier or a soldiers spouse, everyone is subject to transience.

I am happy that you love and have the love of your family.
It appears as though you think yourself deserving of special credit purchased through sacrifice to the greater good. It is true that we all want our "sacrifices" to be worth something but I would suggest sacrifice is an emotional load that is not needed. The fact is some will embrace us and some will not, no matter what we do. What benefit do you feel "your sacrifices" have produced?

The idea that sacrifice is necessary to preserve a way of life is a brutal superstition that requires the blood of our children. How is this different from throwing virgins into a volcano in the hopes of obtaining a good harvest? Perhaps it is cause to feel safe when we imagine our prospects for the future, good for dreaming about. However, it is the weather and soil that contributes to the growth of crops, not blood spilled thousands of miles away or flesh consumed by fire.

 

I'm just going to say I disagree with a lot of what you are saying. I don't think I have the stamina (nor any desire) to debate it. I'm just putting it out there - I disagree. Nothing personal. JMO

 

thedope, you're forgetting that a good deal of people love to play the victim part. that's how they are wired up there. they just genuinely derive pleasure from it (they will always argue against it, of course, in order to retain their status as a victim legitimate).

if you take away (discredit) their sacrifices you take away their identity. thus the ardent extolling of the act of sacrifice.

 

I don't see where sacrifice plays a role here. To be victimized is not the same as personal sacrifice. Yes some people get off on discomfort or being dominated.
To sacrifice is to give up something you prefer to keep. Now if you were to swear off sadistic or masochistic behavior, although you really enjoy it, to make someone else comfortable, that would be making a sacrifice.

 

sacrifice is just taking it to the next level. it's more subtle than hooking up with a person who gives you a couple of good punches to the face every now and again. both ultimately derive pity from (most) people, which is one of the things a self-indulgent victim thrives on. the end result is the same, whether people you come in contact with pity you for your violent boyfriend/husband/etc, or all the things you had to give up in life for somebody else. and while a person who stays with an abuser can also thought to be an idiot and partly a cause for their own misfortune (thus discrediting their status as a victim), the person who makes sacrifices for the sake of others is often thought of as a noble soul (without jeopardizing their status as a victim) and even admired by some. and therein lies the point to it.

 

That all works as long as things fall within the realm of expectation or anticipated reward. No human being can fulfill for another, their ideals.
My point is when the other person doesn't measure up in apparent devotion, then you begin to resent the fact that their behavior doesn't do justice to your own sacrifice.

What you are describing is the attraction of guilt. Accusations of moral
conscience tend to be successful in manipulating affections.

 

"Value" itself (a commonly held good),
Is the only things which is completely valuable.

All people naturally (without trying),
Desire things each consider more valuable than less.
This nature leads us to act with it, and not against it.
So this nature leads us to make sacrifices,
Where there is a conflict in values.

The more our actions become one with this nature,
The easier these actions and sacrifices become (without trying).

Would anyone feel guilty,
If they were truly following their conscience?

 

If you mean if people were truly honest they wouldn't feel guilty, then I agree.
If you mean if people followed their moral conscience then they wouldn't feel guilty, I disagree. Ideas of moral conscience are expressions of guilt at their core. If you truly follow your conscience it will tell you that "no one is perfect".

 

Let me throw in the concept of CHOICE.

By making a choice between two alternatives, one is forgoing the options available had the choice been otherwise. Someone who decides to go to Luigi's Italian Kitchen rather than House of the Dragon shouldn't complain that they "sacrficed" the fortune cookie at the end of the meal.

Let me also suggest that in a relationship, one should seek ways to make the other person happy. "Sacrifice" is what happens when one is seeking to avoid making the other unhappy.

Feelings of "Sacrifice" also erupt when one looks at what one could have done (but chose not to) rather than looking to what one is going to do. "Sacrifice" is an artifact of weighing the past. It's not a feature of working towards the future.

A life is happier when one is grateful about what one has rather than resentful about what one sacrifices.

P.S. Anyone who thinks that doing something for someone else is similar to being physically abused is a selfish ass, who has never been physically abused.

 

but why would any sane person be unhappy when a person--the person they supposedly love for who they are--is who they are? if your happiness depends on the other person changing themselves, their life for you, then that is pretty fucked up.