Refugees - What To Do?

Hey, you added that last sentence after I agreed with you.....I was not going that far.....

 

but it is sad that each country cannot be happy with itself and people have to or want to leave. I wish things were different all over.

 

I have a hard time with refugees. Do we want people here that aren't big enough to fight for or die for their country? That's what my family was doing since the first one of us touched land in the 1690's (IIRC) We have fought in every war this country has had, in the name of freedom. I don't think we were doing it so someone from another country could come here and welch off our system and do nothing. I have met refugees before, which is why I say that. Only one I met worked hard. The rest did nothing and took in welfare checks. That's pathetic.

 

It certainly seems to be.

Since it appears that the current troubles in Syria and Iraq are a direct result of western interventions, I feel western countries have a moral duty to take these people. People who are desperate through no fault of their own. If we say we will only exercise compassion if the recipients are of the religious or political persuasion with which we agree, that isn't really compassion.And even if we'd never gone in there, we should still try to help when we see a situation like this just on grounds of common humanity.

I say help the refugees now, and worry about preventing an Islamic take over later. Not that I think that's at all likely.

 

Sweden isn't too cold for them apparently

 

So no other regions of the world are being pressured to take these people in, just Europe.

This begs the question: Why are asian countries and neighboring middle eastern nations allowed to be close their borders, be xenophobic, and preserve their cultural heritage (however you want to interpret it). But white European nations are expected to take all these refugees in without any paperwork or customs documentation?

Double Standards

 

im not really following this news story (or reading prvious posts)

i will just say that when i see any of this in the news my only thought is "why is there so many men there...why arent they staying in their country to fight for it?"

 

they probably can't figure out which side to fight for. The whole war is a bit of a cluster fuck, you can't blame them for leaving.

 

they never seen the movie Red Dawn

 

Here's the real situation in Europe right now

 

^
Seems about a specific issue that has nothing to do with syrian refugees coming into Europe now. Either an accidental off topic post or some twisted attempt of hate/fear mongering.

 

How does pushing for multiculturalism have nothing to do with allowing refugees Into the EU in mass numbers? Please explain.

 

I was hoping to revisit Europe again someday and experience the traditional culture and people once again. It would be a shame if they lost what took centuries to build.

 

Not at the moment, and not on the coast line.
Seeing a Muslim here is like seeing black folks on skis, you never see it kid, not even in your dreams.

 

If you claim it is 'most likely' I don't know who else I should ask to explain why you made that statement with such certainty.

That's right. Especially that last sentence: 'Do you plan to die in the next 20 years?' seems disgustingly misguided to me. A distorted view on reality. Sure, a lot can happen in 20 years but it is really highly unlikely there is gonna be a large minority (let alone any kind of majority) in countries in north west Europe that are actively striving to implant sharia law. When there might be little groups of people that want such a thing they will be dealt with if they start hatespeeching on our norms, laws and freedoms (and/or undertaking more action that undermines that). If I wouldn't know her better I would say it reeks of fearmongering but it must come from ignorance then.

Such happenings are not a guarantee that these syrian refugees are going to do the same thing at all. The main reason why you seem to think otherwise so far is the fact that most of them happen to be muslim as well, or are coming from the same region of the world. But this region (middle east) differs a lot per country, and per country there are a lot of different kind of people. To generalize like you did IS to stigmatize and essentially discriminate these refugees as a whole.
The 'shit syrian refugees take with them' seems generally not to include wishes for sharia law there, let alone here. If there are some that do have that wish they will be delt with accordingly when they act upon that wish.

By the way: unless we are experiencing it ourselves pretty much everything is second hand information :-D

I'm not sure on which kind of sources you exactly based that syrian refugees are most likely gonna favor sharia law in the western countries that take them in but I wouldn't be so quick to state claims like you did with such certainty. It unfortunately causes only more misunderstanding, polarisation and adds (in your case I'm sure) unwillingly to discrimination and stigmatisation of an entire group. As you are aware now (I hope), Europe doesn't grant just anybody a perminent stay at all. They check for people with a dubious past or affiliation and even if it appears later on some people have extremist tendencies incompatible with the society and laws of the country they live in, they will have to go.
On a more positive note: the information that told you that all those refugees in Hungary were accepted by Germany is entirely accurate

A slight correction: it seems that this is not a primary reason why they are fleeing their country. It is simply because there is an incredible chaotic and destructive war going on, with all kinds of sides. Syria was indeed not such an extremist country at all. It just happens to be so that the majority of male muslims prefer to sport a beard and a lot of women voluntarily wear a headscarf. But they didn't risk dying for not conforming to that in Syria.
Agreed, it may become a concern IF IS or another extremist group would take control of the whole country and enforce these laws but the end of this violent conflict is not in sight. And we may hope of course that with a combined effort a terrorist organisation as IS won't ever take place as the government there. It's a big if. People are fleeing now simply because they don't want to die. If they stay in their homes they risk dying by the violence of any faction there, even the ones who fight against IS.

edit: spelling

 

^yeah, I didn't explain myself well - I was referring to the rising power of ISIS or ISIL, who are trying to enforce this barbaric version of sharia law in territories they have conquered. I was also thinking about a human interest story I read a few days ago about one particular family who fled Syria, and their teenage daughter said pretty much exactly that - she didn't want to die just because she didn't wear a head covering.


of course there are many factors in the refugee crisis and not all live in an area where extreme fundamental Islam has taken over, some are just leaving because of the fighting and chaos. Doesn't really matter, i think we see pretty eye to eye on the topic at hand

 

That on itself would perhaps be a valid point. I however was saying that the specific example you used (some guys, from who knows what country, involved in a group rape that got handled in UK court in an unfortunate way for the parents of the victim) has nothing to do with the people this thread is about. To insist there is a correlation (because they're from the same region, which is not even sure, or because they seemingly have the same religious background) is pretty much retarded.
It's like stating something absurd about americans in general based on the behaviour of the guy who start shooting during a batman movie.

Well I would say just not visit anymore then Nobody in Europe will lose any sleep over that. Happily this loss is all between your ears. Most big cities in Europe have been multicultural for centuries by the way.

I must be dreaming... Anyway, South Africa even has a ski resort! Although I can imagine it is mostly whiteys who make use of it.

 

New York (particularly Manhattan) was a more interesting city when lower income people from many various ethnic groups could all live there. Now that its quickly becoming a city only white millionaires can afford, it seems kinda boring to me.

I am just using an example I can relate to because I've been to NY, but I've always been under the impression European cities were pretty multicultural already. The refugees are just a small percentage of Europe's population so its not going to do much to the overall ethnic make up and even if it does, who cares. Why is multiculturalism this scary boogeyman? The world is in transit more now than ever so better get used to it.

also what is Europe supposed to do if they don't take any refugees in, turn them back to Syria to die?

 

It is certain that we see eye to eye on this topic, I was just noticing what you said and wanted to nuance it I will say it again for emphasis: it is not some that are leaving because of the fighting and chaos. It is why most of them leave. The far majority.

Did you guys know by the way, that the parents of the kid in the OP first tried to apply for asylum in Canada? They had already family living there. It was their best legal option. But they were refused due to not having the right papers and they then tried to flee the area by making use of an illegal method (smugglers boat). It was a last resort that worked out terribly. The boat sucked ass and began to sink pretty soon, the mother and kids couldn't swim, only the dad survived. We now mainly think of this kid because of the picture that got a lot of media attention but there were more kids on that boat that drowned. As well as others.
What I mean to say with sharing this is it is not solely a matter of 'fortress Europe', other countries can/should play their part too. Of course it is mainly a matter for Europe and the Middle east because this is simply where the people come from and are going to.

So it seems to me it is not a matter of what we want in an ideal situation. The situation is simply not ideal and we all have to deal with that. It's not like those refugees wanted to leave their fucking country in the first place. They are pretty much left with no choice. Do you think they let their kids drown in the mediterrean primarily because they want to leech of your system?

 

Unless I live in a country that has the balls to declare and recognize that these people are afflicted with a communicable mental illness then no, close the border. You can not treat a disease that you refuse to recognize from fear of being politically incorrect. Fundamentalist religious belief in a doctrine that is fundamentally SICK and barbaric is nothing less than a mental SICKNESS.

Check their Qurans at the border and get these people treated for the sickness they are running from. Or it will only manifest in your country in years to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7QRPvmjaoQ&feature=youtu.be