Psychedelic Bump II

Eh, I find it hard to believe more have been hospitalized from t7, but look at jwh-018.
Some people :toetap05:

 

well its psychoactive effects are on the longer side compared to most phens and it has been known to cause more delerium type effects in certain people, don't see why that would be hard to believe.

 

What a trip. took 20mgs of 4-aco-dmt. Smoked a bowl (weed) at peak and had a totally new experiance. A fraction of a second of what I believe to be ego death. I actually forgot everything... forgot everything. Beautiful chemical. Made me a little nervious... and honestly when that moment of total break from reality came.. I fought it. I choose to stay grounded. It was too new and bright and big beyond my comprehension... I thought myself to the end of my mind and saw the ether that expands beyond...

Next time... 25mgs...

 

i don't disagree. have you decided that iprocin is not really worthwhile then? same with 2cd? in other words, are they both losers? after one trip with each? (even though they were pretty decent sized doses)
after one small dose of LSD...i new that was a keeper.

 

Just don't see why more would be hospitalized from t7 than 2ce or a number of other chemicals. Kinda mooted what I was saying with the jwh reference though...mass number of hospitalizations and zero deaths.

 

"turn off your mind, relax, and float downstream
it is not dying
it is not dying
Lay down all thoughts, surrender to the void
it is shining
it is shining"

trust in it, you are it

this was my second iprocin dose. i'm not writing it off, even 30mg at least has use as an aphrodesiac, and i'm sure shit gets real at 50+. 2c-d I've done 3 times, all three large doses, might do a heroic dose one night just to close the case on this one. yeah lsd is whoa momma

 

Was not quite ready for that. Wasn't expecting it. I have a feeling experiances like that are only going to become more common in my psychedelic use. Once some doors are opened, I suppose they stay open. That was certanly a new door. It was really only for a moment, but it was one of those long moments. In scale of soley intensity and detachment from reality I'd rate it close to a salvia breakthrough. And at only 5 mgs up from my last dose. Perplexing.

 

Well, may this old fart throw in his two cents?
I haven't tried any RC's myself and I'm not really eager too.
You guys need to understand that you are taking chemicals that have NOT been subjected to any type of long term trials or any type controlled testing in a rigorous setting to determine the safety, short and long term, of these substances.
To be honest I get concerned for your safety when I read some of the things you guys take, especially mixing and matching. The only substance that is reguarly mentioned by you guys that does have a history of use and clinical trials is MMDMA & MDA. Both of those have been shown to do long term damage if abused, both through studies and by reports of those who have abused those substances. Even the Shulgins warned of the overuse of MMDMA.

Granted a lot of these substances are probably as safe as some of the more common, traditional substances they are related to. You guys know a lot more about the chemistry of these substances than I do, so you know what I refer to.

The natural plant psychedelics have an extensive history of use by man and any adverse effects are well understood and considered.
LSD-25 is the most studied psychedelic with around 30+ years of actual trials and follow-up studies done on those that have used it. It also has 60+ years of use and mutiple millions of people have used it.
What concerns me is that in abscence of clinical trials and studies, you kids and your generation comprise the first group of "guinea pigs" with these substances.
Couple that with the fact that a lot of the labs producing these chems are not in the US or UK and if they are they're clandestine labs.
So ask yourself what is more important to these labs, your safety and the purity of thier products or thier bottom line profits?
I'm willing to bet it's the profit over safety. Sadly you kids are the chips in this game of dice.

Like I said, a lot of you guys are more familier with the chemistry of these substances then I am, and they may well be very safe.
Problem is we won't know just how safe/unsafe they are until you guys have reached my age and by then it may be too late.

Sorry if I sound like I'm preaching or trying to be your parents, I just get concerned when I read some of the things you guys do.
Raz, your recent thing with the pills you got that were not as advertised is a prime example of what I'm talking about here.

Please be careful you guys, I would hate to log on one morning to find one of my friends is no longer with us because of innacurate dosing or somebody in some lab was careless or sent the wrong substance.

Thanks for listening to an old fart like me.

 

You didnt read what I wrote, Its been known to cause delerium in people and its an entirely different chemical than 2ce. I didnt address your jwh remark because it was going off on a tangent but the relative comparison would be why would jwh-018 send people to the hospital while THC, cp , or some of the other jwh's would be less likely to.

 

Because it's NOT the same as THC;
From Wiki:

Compared to THC, which is a partial agonist at CB1 receptors, JWH-018 (and many of its analogues) are full agonists. This means that users may experience far more intense effects compared to smoking cannabis. THC has been shown to inhibit GABA neurotransmission in the brain via several pathways. JWH-018 may cause intense anxiety, agitation, and even seizures or convulsions by inhibiting GABA neurotransmission more efficiently than THC. Cannabinoid receptor full agonists may present serious dangers to the user when overdosed.

A study published March 2010 in the "Journal Of Occupational Medicine and Toxicology" have shown that JWH-018 has similar negative health effects of those found with standard Cannabis consumption because inhalation of smoke from burned organic materials can cause various health problems. JWH-018 depending on method of consumption has very similar effects. One of the researchers involved in the new study is Dr. Anthony Scalzo, a toxicologist at Saint Louis University. He told The Associated Press that he has seen more than 30 cases of Missouri teenagers having agitation, elevated heart rates, vomiting and other health effects not normally associated with moderate to low Cannabis consumption; however, he noted that these are all these symptoms can be seen at high dosages of marijuana.

 

^^^Exactly and 2ct7 is not 2ce. Even among the jwh's jwh-018 seems to be one of the stronger ones while I've heard jwh-083 is more like weed and some jwh's lack in intensity and certain effects. Same with the phens.

 

Guess I get what you're saying a bit better now.
JWH-018 is the easiest cannabinoid to source, which IMO has a lot to do with its number of hospitalizations, but that's all beside the point.

When LSD was first discovered no one knew what its effects on the human body were. People have said all kinds of things throughout its history regarding its actions on the human body (sure we've all heard some ridiculous claims).
Seems people are less interested in doing clinical trials with all these new psychedelics now than they once were (gov. LSD testing etc.).
If people weren't willing to take LSD anyway despite its lack of history at the time it wouldn't be what it is today.

 

Regarding mdma: There was this BBC study a few years ago that tried to rank drugs based on how dangerous they are and MDMA ranked below LSD and alcohol obviously. Granted it seems there would be alot of subjectivity in that kind of ranking but just saying.

I also believe the FDA approved MDMA recently to be used for returning iraq soldiers suffering ptsd in combination with extensive therapy.

 

Can you cite that? Just sounds like an interesting story.

 

Thought they did one recently ranking MDMA as one of the least harmful substances? Like 17th or 18th. Only substances ranked safer were amyls and some sort of legal herb.

 

Difference is that LSD was developed and manufactured by a pharmaceutical company and subject to strict controlls regarding purity and dosage. That is not the case with these RC's.
Purity and dosage were not a concern with LSD because of the source. Sandoz did conduct preliminary studies prior to making it available for clinical use.

That same set of circumstances does not exist today with the RC chemicals.
LSD was being studied by Sandoz and others years before any government studies were started. Hopefully with organizations such as MAPS such studies can and will be conducted with these relatively new substances.

Please do not take what I said as if I were telling you what to do or not to do.
I just am asking that you guys keep some of these facts concerning these chemicals in mind and please be careful.
It is all meant with the best intentions and your safety in mind.

 

www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/article/FDA-OKs-study-of-ecstasy-as-treatment-for-ptsd/19559540

Not last week my bad

 

How much LSD did Sandoz actually produce?
Owsley was underground, and produced what was supposedly very pure LSD.

 

yes amyl and khat and that was the ranking I was referring to.

 

Hoffman first synthesized LSD in 1938, although it's effects were unknown until April of 1943, the famous "bicycle day". They did not begin marketing it until 1949, so they were conducting trials and animal studies for 7 years prior to marketing it as a substance for use in psychiatry. They continued producing it until 1965 and stopped due to the growing bad press it was receiving. They were also the sole producer of it from 1943 - 1963 when the patent ran out.

I could not find quick figures for how much they produced, though I'm confidant it was on the order of hundreds of kilos annually at least.

Owsley did produce very pure LSD, and he also gave away much more then he sold. Monetary profit was not his motivation. Can the same be said for the labs supplying you with RC's?

I'm not sure where you are trying to go with this Smitty, I was just expressing my concern regarding the way and amounts of these chemicals are used.
I meant it in the spirit of love and concern, not derision or condemnation.