Proof that God and Heaven don't exist

Bro I wasn't refferring to you in the first place. My remark was meant to be lightly comical. You are getting way too defensive about your age...remember you're gonna have another birthday within the next year...

You're calling me "close minded" for making a comical observation that wasn't meant to be taken completely seriously. Your remark is not very fitting here. How bout you just mind your own beezwax next time

 

Yeah sure... speaking of trying to talk your way out of it
You were refering to me as you said "all 18 year olds", I dont have to quote that, do I?

Look dude, if you dont want a reaction, then dont fucking post in the first place
I post and respond whatever I want to say, go back to your cave if you dont like that.
Thnx!

Peace

 

Go out somewhere nature has a little freedom and smell the flowers...examine them closely, their structure, their patterns and colour and form. Examine your own body, the wrinkles in the skin, the perfection of the eyes...Observe small creatures-rats, mice, birds, rabbits...Look at the stars at night

Im not saying i believe in a Christian or Jewish God, because to be honest i do not, as i am part of neither religion. But your sweeping statement "God does not exist" seems rash to me, as i personally see God (although im hesitant to call it that because of the connotations) every day i live. It doesnt mean its a beardy guy in the clouds with heaven and the harps. But theres something...there...for many people

I wouldnt rule it out so quickly

 

Indeed,
I didnt see how that would proof the existance of God, hehe.
Evolution!

 

Oh my lord, its like hitting my head against a brick wall
Perhaps youre taking "evidence" in the wrong way, or perhaps its either one of those things you see or you dont...either way, you cannot say "God does not exist", and to assume so and then close your mind to any other possibility would be a mistake

Personally my mind isnt closed off to possibility one bit, but you asked for "someone, anyone" to give you something they feel is evidence of something many call God, and i gave my viewpoint

As i said, maybe you either see it or dont

 

What on Earth does evolution have to do with this?

And how ignorant does one have to be to still believe evolution disproves God?
Im pretty sure mankind worked through this misconception quite a while ago

Evolution, in its provable sense, is undeniable...creatures adapting over many years to suit environments, become stronger etc. But it has bugger-all to do with there either being or not being a God force

 

I think Liroy brought up evolution in response to your point about looking at the complexity and fitness of life around us. Darwinists account for this by natural selection which, as Dawkins and Dennett argue, can account for a lot of complexity and fitness. I share your opinion that divine design is a reasonable possibility, but not just because of the complexity and fitness. According to Darwinists, human existence, or the existence of intelligent, conscious life forms, invloves a certain amount of chance. Our ancestors took a fork in the path that they did not have to take. If they hadn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation, and nobody would be aware of all this complexity and fitness.

There are two ways of looking at this. Hard core Darwinists tend to say, So what? So there wouldn't be humans or other conscious, intelligent life forms. There would be something else. Or not. And that's the way it is, neither good nor bad. Intuitively (and I think intuition is important), I don't find that a satisfactory answer, possibly because my human ego needs to find some "meaning" in all of this, but also, I think, because the fact that there are conscious, intelligent life forms who are aware of their existence and can discuss it on Hip Forums seems to be more than just a "So what?" This outcome might be just a coincidence, or it might be part of some kind of intelligent design (or something else we haven't thought of). It's either a "miracle" or an amazingly happy accident. Either way, I'm impressed.

 

you put quotation marks around something that I said...you already did quote me dumbass. Go back to my cave?? how bout you stop making winky faces at me

 

Anyway, God is something (in my experience) that you feel. You know it to be true...It wouldn't matter to me if you disproved every word of every holy book or prophet, if you told me that my feelings was purely psychological and this had been proven...at the end of the day I really don't care what anyone else says. Because I KNOW God exists. and its not through faith...Its something I know because Ive experienced it.
"faith should be shunned" this is absurd....faith is a human characteristic, and if you have no faith in anything, I feel very sorry for you. You must lead a trite existence. But then again, i doubt you do lack all forms of faith, and Im sure you made that comment before really thinking it through..

 

Dirty Vibe has proved he does not have a brain

 

Erm... yeah, that is exactly what you do when you quote someone, fool.

How about you shut the fuck up or go suck someone's cock,
ignorant idiot.

Now could you be so kind to stfu with your pure bullshit and get back on topic instead of making more ridicilous posts,
I might die from laughing if you keep this up, you dont want to murder anyone now, do you?
I will stop replying to your bullshit now, it's pointless, although I must admit I did amuse myself.

Oh by the way:

How ignorant has someone got to be to:
- Say that looking at the nature, the flowers, the perfection of it, prooves God?
- Say that someone said that evolution disprooves the existance of God while that person did not even do that?
- Say that looking at the nature and all does proove god, but evolution theory will never?

Give me a break,
please *READ* before you even blurt something out,
making assumptions based on nothing is so... Christian :-X

Either way,
Evolution has everything to do with this.
And if it is prooved entirely, then the opinion that the bible is bullshit is immedieately made a fact.
If you have read the bible, then I am sure you understand why that is the case? (*cough* years *cough*)
Misconception my ass.

Before I post the answer where in the bible you can find the huge flaw that will cause this, (although my hint should say enough?)
I would love to see your reply on it as I can guess what will come next


Peace.

 

Lets leave it at this...if you don't believe in God, you don't have to. You also don't have to call others beliefs bullshit.

Liroy, we've been through this before on this very same topic...The Bible doesn't give absolute proof of God one way or the other. Refer back to my previous posts.

okay, you say that you didnt say that God didn't exist because of evolution...get real bro. Thats what you were implying because thats what this whole discussion is about!

About the quotations, you seem to have a very think skull. You said "do I have to quote you?" seems like a stupid question when you just got done quoting me. That was my point. But anyway, Im sure you need the last word, and Im sure you are just going to keep on using meaningless vulgar language. Be my guest, if it makes you feel good about yourself.

Why did you ask if I wanted to kill someone?? kind of strange. Im not the one mindlessly posting profanity in a rage this side of the computer. Furthermore, just a strange question to ask. Are you a native english speaker?

 

I've read the Bible and I don't get your point. How would proving evolution entirely make fact the opinion that the bible is bullshit--unless, of course, you take the Bible literally? At the Dover trial in Pennsylvania, where some fundamentalists were trying to get Intelligent Design taught as science in public schools, the star witness on the other side was Dr. Kenneth Miller, who presented a powerful case that the Intelligent Design theory and Creationism are "bullshit". And he's a devout Catholic. Dr. Francis Collins, head of the genome project, likewise has written a book affirming Darwin. And he's an Evangelical Christian. Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have no problem with Darwin because evolution is consistent with interpretations of the Bible they've accepted since the Middle Ages. Yes, it would be a big blow to the Southern Baptists and other literalists if somebody proved Darwin, but many of us have been Darwinists for some time.

 

If I figure it is bullshit, and that is my opinion, then why shouldnt I express that?
Surely you are entitled to your own opinion, so let me have mine, kthnx.

I was *not* implying that, that is what you make of it.
Proof that I meant it... that's right: you cant.
If I say I didnt mean that, then I dont, so you can stop directing the conversation in the way you would like to see it... aint gonna happen.

Oh yes it makes me feel soooo good about myself,
thank you for upping my ego... get real dude -_-

If you didnt understand the sarcasm, then I think you should reread the post or reconsider going to school again.
Once again you did make a amusing statement though, the last few lines: genious, very funny.

And no, English is a alternative language for me, my native language is Dutch.

Anyway... peace!


@Oakiefreak:

Now, if I shouldnt take the bible literally (which from my personal point of view dont anyway; I think it's a funny fairytail) then why are we having this discussion?

If it's symbolic then how can you seperate the symbolic "events" from the true events?
What has happened and what didnt?

If it is entirely symbolic, then indeed it wont proove anything,
however, that will also mean that it is plain bullshit because it would be a made up story, doesnt it?
Sure it has some good points about how to live, but the heaven and hell part and the devil and god are just something to scare you then... just like evil creatures in a fairytail for children.
Just this fairy tail has a big impact on the entire world.

So basically, if I take it literally and the evolution theory is prooven, then it will be prooven bullshit, right?
If I take it symbolic, then a great part already is bullshit...
Both ways would be plain crap then :-X
Unless I miss something...


Peace!

 

You (and Fedup) seem to see no differnce between metaphors and fairytales (i.e., bullshit). The great religious thinkers of the Judeo-Christian, Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist traditions agree that God cannis incomprehensible to human minds, and that the best way to approach the ineffable is through symbols and metaphors. The Bible (like the Qu'ran, the sutras, and other great scriptures of the world's religions)represents human beings' feeble attempts to express their time-bound understandings of the ineffable. Some of it is inspired. Other parts seem to me like--bullshit (which doesn't necessarily mean that it is). The only way we can tell which is which is to use our reason, judgment and intuition, rooted in our personal experience. Mine will be different from yours. Some things may resonate with us as insightful and put us in touch with a Higer Power outside and/or inside us. It shouldn't be read as a history book or a science text. Is Shakespeare "bullshit"?

 

That, my friend, we agree on. But where we probably disagree is that I believe these "symblos and metaphors" aren't just entertainment, but an effective way of communicating basic truths.

Possibly from methods of inquiry similar to mine. I respect your views, and Liroy's, as thoughtful contributions to the dialogue.

As you know, there are a large number of fundamentalists in every religion who take these truths literally. Some of them are very intelligent. I think the reason they do this is the one suggested by Liroy's earlier post, and yours. If you don't, how do you tell what's "true" and what isn't? How do you know whose interpretation is the right one? etc. Some Muslim scholars have even argued that passages suggesting that God has fingers and sits on a throne should be taken literally. The Christian theologian Tertullian said that he believed "because it is absurd." But I have faith in reason and don't beleive it literally. [/QUOTE]

Probably not, but Shakespeare may have helped shape their understanding of life.

 

You've probably noticed the posts by Samwise,providing a formula for 100% admission to heaven, and invloving believing in various things. I guess my secular education in public schools got to me, since I think of belief as something to be done after somebody convinces you with evidence and arguments, not something you just do as a matter of choice, because somebody tells you to, coupled with the implied threat of hellfire and damnation. [/QUOTE]

 

Disregard. I duplicated my previous post by mistake & then erased it.

 

haha Fed up American thanks for springing up to Liroys defense on every trivial point...
your own thoughts and words are more insulting to you than anything I could think of saying so ill keep it brief...

My beliefs don't lie in the realm of fantasy...your extreme ego centrism probably does. Try to adopt more of a world view. You have no idea what my beliefs are, but like a child you assume that since you know what some christians believe you must know what they all believe...I dont believe in a christian God. I believe in one God. Not a fantasy. Whatever it is, thats what I believe in. I believe that there is some greater force that all of us are not aware of at least not at all times. I believe that i don't understand it that well, and I may never understand it, but I do believe in it.

yea I have slaves...what the fuck is that supposed to mean??
You do realize that non christian people have had slaves too right?? Are you trying to blame slavery on christianity?? obviously it was a horrible institution but it has existed in many cultures christian or not.
and where do you get the condoning murder part?? ever heard of the ten commandments?? No, I was not a part of the crusades...
Im only going to say this one more time on this forum in hopes that someone will actually understand...maybe all caps will help..PEOPLE HAVE DONE BAD THINGS IN THE NAME OF RELIGION. THIS DOESN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT RELIGION AS A WHOLE. IF YOU THINK THAT IT DOES, THEN YOU SHOULD ALSO BELIEVE THAT SINCE HUMAN BEINGS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MORE EVIL AND DESTRUCTION THAN ANYTHING ELSE, ALL HUMAN BEINGS ARE INHERINTLY EVIL. YOU CAN SEE HOW STUPID THIS IS, RIGHT?

fuck the internet. Im done with this shit. a bunch of pussy ass idiots bringing you down to their level...you say "why shouldnt I call it bullshit" blah blah blah WHY? because when you're trying to have an intelligent conversation you generally want to stick to valid points. We're way off course on this one and I feel like hanging up the keyboard for a while...Maybe going out in nature and finding god. And no thats not proof of his existence dumbass its how I feel about the matter. Im not out to convince you guys of anything.
My Grandpa was a dutchman. he abused and left his family. I think all Dutch people are lousy no good fucks...if you don't like my logic here, try working on your own

 

LMFAO!
what a idiot.
You cant take it anymore so you just decide to, try to, insult us and then leave?
Very typical

Anyway, this part amused me:

And then you post this yourself, filthy hypocrite:

You are full of christian hypocrisy mate and I must admit, it *IS* very funny.
You should become a stand-up comedian, people will probably burst into tears about the way you take the word "retarded" to yet another level.