Proof that God and Heaven don't exist

I'm going into zoology my friend....I read everything from science to meditation. Why do you think of any religion as a fairy tale? As of this moment I am kind of just living and I don't use religion as a crutch for me to survive every day...but I don't see how you don't believe in anything. Well its up to you though. That bj statement made me laugh.

 

I never quite understand the "I don't believe in organized religion, thus God doesn't exist" thing.

All religion is a construct of man, who by the definition of essentially every holy book is flawed- therefore religion must be flawed, and so it follows that religion cannot properly explain something else. Especially not something which is by definition beyond explanation in the first place.

 

I don't think I espoused believing in religion.
Which, of course, is real because it exists - so if you don't believe in religion you may as well start picking other arbitrary things not to believe in. The color yellow, wagons, Republicans.

I don't like religion much beyond a topic for objective study, but I don't really see why one has to like, care about, or even believe in religion to believe in whatever God floats their cereal.

 

It's a secret, and they told me I wouldn't get my Transformer collection back if I told.

 

True, JAH (or God, Allah, Yahweh, etc) existence cannot be disproved, or proved, thats why is is faith. However, I an I have a question, why are so many people interested in disproving the existence of a god? Especially since, if they don't believe in a god, because it doesn't apply to them anyway. Just curious

 

Originally Posted by Okiefreak
The pointI was trying to make is that we can't operate in life without faith.

I think you underestimate your faith. Of all the people posting on this thread, your faith seems to be the strongest, or that's the way you present yourself. In fact you come across as an anti-religious zealot. You seem to have unshakable faith that you are infallible, that your views are the only right ones, and that everybody else's are "BULLSHIT". That's not exactly a scientific or rational attitude. Is that stuff about shutting your eyes, covering your ears and saying lalalala... a reflection of your own strategy for dealing with arguments and evidence that don't fit into your worldview? If you read carefully my post that you're replying to , it didn't say a thing about faith in God, Jesus, the holy spirit, Humpty Dumpty or "ANY other fairy tale". By my definition, Faith=Intuition+Risk Taking. Your beliefs qualify.

 

Congratulations, you just discredited your entire religion.

 

so id like to know.. how do christians know exactly what happened to adam and eve i mean if they were the only 2 people around who wrote down exactly what happened?? im sure language would barely have been around when all this happening. the story gets told in details that could only be written if someone was truly there. yet i doubt anyone who wrote the bible was around at the same time as adam and eve?? anybody???????

i actually find it pretty sad that people devote there whole lifes and sometimes there wallets in the biggest marketing scheme on the planet. the ministers and preists you put your faith in are nothing but average people telling you what you want too hear. its the same as anyone trying to sell you anything, there going to say exactly what you want to hear. not to mention all the undeniable PROOF that christianity has pretty much ripped off countless religions that pre-date it by thousands of years.

the cold hard truth is there most likely is nothing after you die, just blackness.. no god will come to save you and no heaven will open its doors. wise up people there is no god there is no satan, no heaven, no hell. but still people are so needy that they NEED to believe in something.

to me the bible just sounds like the next harry potter book.

 

This is one of the most ignorant thing I've ever read. Take philosophy 101 and within the first couple days you should see why this argument is completely invalid, and why you need to start exercising your brain a little more.
And rememer, God isn't experienced by someone when their ego is too large to even accept the POSSIBILITY that god might exist...

If you think you found the answer to lifes greatest question in a blog by a neophite logician...WOW.

first of all, im not sure this logic here actually proves ANYTHING...but if it does prove anytihng, it proves that IF you take the bible literally despite various bad translations that have occurred over time IF you misinterpret obvious metaphorical meaning, and IF you take it out of context of the time and place it was written, and IF a pre-requsite to being a Christian or Jew was believing every word of the old testament or torah in a literal sense...IF all this was true, which it is not, than you would have proven that the PERCEPTION of God in the judeo christian tradition is not completely accurate (wow!! maybe because it was written by MEN who are not GOD and who make mistakes!) congratulations!! you've just logically established that the early christians and Jews were actually human like the rest of us!! this has no logical connection to the existence of God because this argument is created from the perspective of 'pre-assuming God does not exist, and you will now try find proof of that within biblical text'...The argument is invalid for several reasons one of which is the fact that the author does not even slightly consider other points of view. Narrow reasoning does not hold up to anyone with half a brain.

If you ever want to consider the possibility of God, you must also realize that God is not a scientific issue...let me elaborate...
I believe in Science. Id be stupid not to. The scientific method works and its reliable (although you still need a certain amount of skepticism when it comes to results because of certain bias, etc...) But what is science?? Science tells us about the physical world as far as we can a)possibly comprehend it with our limited senses b)measure and observe it with the tools we have available c) comprehend it in the context of an infinite universe (we can only say for certain that physical laws in this galaxy apply to THIS galaxy...)
What Im trying to establish here is that science has a limit...Philosophy is the first and last of the sciences. It proposes to answer questions that physical science cannot. Theology and the arts elaborate further and try to put that which is felt to be real and true but cannot be inellectually internalized into a form that humans can digest (spiritually)

So really, spiritual understanding is a seperate form than intellectual. You can never disprove God's existence through logic (or any other means for that matter). And if you do not wish to understand God, combined with the fact that you don't understand elementary logic, you may very well never accept the fact that you are experiencing God first hand EVERY MOMENT of EVERY DAY. Its a shame...I beg you to reconsider, and try opening the horizons of your consciousness. There is a part of you begging to understand universal truth, but you are denying it.

Good Luck....and keep in mind I am not implying you have to follow any form of the judeo christian tradition to experience what people in this tradition have chosen to give the name "GOD" (really, God has no name, you see)

 

science is only limited by knowledge anything that is can be proved right or wrong, if there is a god then there should be proof or at least to ability to proof or disproof his/her existence.

you also become a hypocrite because if you believed in science then you would believe in FACT which you clearly do not by arguing the existence of someone who was supposed to be created before all time and space.

the fact of the matter is the bible is the only book that can back your claims to the existence of god and you saying that it itself is "not fully accurate" cancels out alot of what is in it.. how can you even start a discussion with facts that are "not fully accurate"???

if one thing science has done its told us the intelligence level of people that lived 2000 years ago. your basically taking your information from people who lived like savages probably could barely read or write and had a very primitive existence with noway to prove whats what. maybe if people had science 2000 years ago the facts would have led the bible to never even get written.

you also have seemed to negate the fact its been PROVEN that christianty stole alot of its beliefs/rituals and storys from other religions

 

The problem with you is that you are only looking at God from the perspective of people who may or may not actually understand God in a true sense. You may feel that you are thinking for yourself, but you are not..you are merely thinking the opposite of what someone else has already proposed. you are still thinking about God and the Bible in a literal sense, the same way that misinformed religious folks do. THINK ABSTRACT. THINK METAPHORICALLY. Early christians and Jews were often persecuted for their beliefs..often they had to CODE the messages they were giving in metaphors.
And let me tell you, not all preachers make good money and tell you exactly what you want to hear...

What do you devote your life to?? I hope it is something worthy, and even if it is, you shouldn't discount someone elses life choices just because you don't understand them...

Heaven and Hell, and the afterlife....well, I think God would have us focus on our lives that we know and can be sure of. Heaven is a place on Earth, as is Hell...If you believe in nothing, and feel that life has no meaning, your life decisions will reflect that belief and ultimately may find yourself understanding the meaning of hell very well. If you accept that life does have meaning, that there is a reason you are here, you will believe in Love and Goodness and your life decisions will reflect those beliefs. This is the path to Heaven...A place of healthy satisfaction, happiness and peace. Often people who claim to be religious still think of happiness or lack thereof, in material terms.

You don't have to believe every word of a book wriiten by men in order to experience God and live a Godly life, or in order to find grains of truth and guidance within those texts. STOP THINKING SO SMALL!! get big!

 

Not really Proggy. Not to mention the poster didn't even mention what their religion was??? wow you are really a clever one arent you? NOT
The original poster was correct, Logic cannot prove or disprove Gods existence, rather it is something that must be exprienced and then sustained through faith, acceptance and Love. and the point also being that a book written by MEN not GOD cannot be held as absolute evidence one way or the other!! now THAT is true logic for you, and it doesn't discount anyones religion...Nice try though

 

Wow, you're being rather presumptious in telling me WHY my spiritual life is the way it is...I don't base my beliefs on any text, I base them on spiritual experiences. If I would have to consider one test that has seemed most in line with my spiritual understanding it would actually be the Tao, not the Bible, but thats another story...

Im not a hypocrite because I never asserted my belief in the existence of Adam and Eve. I never asserted that Christianity was the only religion worthy of God. I never even asserted that RELIGION has to do with the existence of God at all.

Do I consider that Christianty followed suit in many aspects of religions that came before it...well first of all, not too many religions that came before it (before christianity, Judaism was one of the only monotheistic religions that had existed. ever.) but thats not even the issue...This STILL has nothing to do with the existence of GOD. That is what we are talking about...Christianity is an organized religion created by men, and organized by men who had political and social motives!! Big Surprise!! MEN EXPLOITED SPIRITUAL HUMAN INCLINATIONS FOR PERSONAL GAIN!! wowee...it doesn't say anything about the existence of God. Can you comprehend that?? I know, its getting a little deep!

Knowledge is not the only thing that limits science...But I can see that you are going to have a hard time understanding this one...You see, we only have 5 physical senses. Some animals have senses that we cannot completely comprehend. This alone proves that HUMAN EXPERIENCE does not encompass all that IS. Science can only tell us as much about the world that we can experience or comprehend. Can you understand that?? If science told us any more than what we could comphrehend or actually experience, well we wouldn't know it would we...Therefor there IS a limit to science. Its called the fact that we are not infinite beings, we are HUMANS who have limited sensory capacity, and a reality that does not necessarily reflect the reality that may exist in other parts of the universe...
GO LOOK UP WHAT ALBERT EINSTEIN SAYS ON THIS MATTER AND GET BACK TO ME! (many scientists set out in the field in order to answer questions they had about life...many of them make new discoveries, and break incredible ground only to discover that there ARE limitations on science, and the questions they have remain largely unanswered. This is where Philosphy comes in...)

I fear that this argument is rather futile...it does take a certain stretch of the intellect to grasp some of these ideas Im throwing at you. I trust that if you try, you can disect some of this.

 

Oh and Pyscho delic...
Dude, I just re read some of what you wrote...I think you should study up on history and then maybe think about getting back into this discussion...
Lets assume that I did base my entire spiritual existence on the Bible (which I don't) you say I am getting my information from people who probably couldn't read or write...This begs the question, have you ever READ THE BIBLE!? The people who wrote this "probably couldn't read or write." HA!
okay fine,Ill grant you the fact that humans who lived 2000 years ago were different from us living today because of cultural advancement, various social and inustrial revolutions, medicine and diet, and a very small amount of micro-evolution...We actually remain largely the same as far as capacity for reason and comprehension, and well basically everything else . Humans have not evolved much in 2000 years (in the history of the the earth or even of hominids, 2000 years is like a blink of the eye)

 

Please read my sig and determine which group you belong to. The tooth fairy isn't real either btw.

 

so all of you trying to disprove gods existance. are you trying to make people feel bad? or trying to say that the bible is a crappy STORY BOOK. get it straight, im sure thats what you all meant right?

the bible isnt suppose to tell you how reality was created, its suppose to be a clutch, for those who think about that stuff too much.

for those who i have offended...Beware, it was a cheap shot. Go back into your shell.

are you offended by your shell statement? well then, lets talk so philosophy. try not to slip, gods watching.

 

Please, lets talk some philosophy. Im not offended. No one hear knows me, or knows my beliefs and everyone has the right to their opinion as much as I might disagree. No reason for being offended.
Not everyone thinks of God as an old man watching from heaven and judging our every action. This is a childish way of thinking about spirituality.
anway, Im not sure how to take your post. It didn't make a lot of sense to me. but I can see that you're an 18 year old know it all...well I guess all 18 year olds are...Boy are you in for a surprise in the coming years!

 

Fuck you dude
I'm 18 aswell and certainly am not a "know it all"... dont post close-minded bullshit if you dont agree with someone please, thnx.

Peace!

 

fair enough...I was 18 a few years ago myself, and I thought I knew way more than I actually did...and my point was that this attitude is common among that age group, and in my experiences that holds true. Im not an agist, and I wouldn't consider what ive written "close minded bullshit"

I responded to this topic to discuss THIS TOPIC. So far no one has responded to the actual points ive made, and everything else I don't really care about

 

It is not close minded to say that *all* 18 years old are "know it all's"?
I think you and I have a different perception of what defines being close minded then.

And you are 20 according to your profile?
You are merely 2 years older then I am, and that suddenly makes you wiser then me or any 18 year old?

Come on dude, I think that at this point you are showing a bit of being a know it all yourself...
Maybe you are wiser then me, and maybe you are not, we shall not know, but saying that you know more just because you are older is quite a amusing statement if we do not know each other anyway!

Anyway,
I just got back here from a break of more then a month, so it takes a bit time to catch up with everything and reply properly, but your statement needed a response, hence why I posted something irrelevant... which was in fact a response to a irrelevant post of yourself, so no complaints can be made there in my humble opinion
Dont worry, you will get the reply you seem to desire.


Peace,
- Liroy