Pro-LSD use

Uhhh...psychedelics are said to have metaphysical meanings. I've heard LSD referred to as the "spirit molecule." Not just on the internet from Owley or whoever, but in a serious article about the "serious" side of psychedelic use.

I like that comment about quantum physics, I've been reading a lot about the subject recently (most notably _The Elegant Universe_ and _The Fabric of the Cosmos_, both by Brian Greene). I read the first before any acid trips and I've just started the second, several months after my most recent experience. I think that studying this and really getting into it is the only way to actually "visualize" the quantum world. And this is what I find so interesting about the human brain - it is capable of knowing/perceiving/seeing so much more than you think it is. These quantum concepts (11 dimensions - three spatial, one time, and seven dimensions that are either far too large or far too small to see or feel, particles being bound up, entropy past and present) are much easier to get a hold of when you have experienced something like that. I noticed it particularly from the fractals I saw...a case where a visual (which, according to some are worthless) led to being able to better understand some archaic physics concept.

Also about the visuals - I don't see how it would be possible to not have CEV's. Even the first time I tripped when it was shitty, shitty acid and the whole thing was done in less than 7 hours, I had fairly intricate and definite CEV's. On the last trip, the two closed eye visuals I had that evening were the two most powerful event I have ever experienced in my life. One was being at the presence of a greater being, God perhaps or another something that I like to kind of pretend/sort of seriously believe exists. The other was what I guess one might call Nirvana or Zen. This one I will share:

My friend and I were alone in my dorm, two best friends and tripping partners in the depths of their own experiences. He was feeling the walls, the ceiling, the chairs, the carpet...I turned on Hardcore Heaven 2: Reloaded and layed back on my futon. At first it was an indeterminate mess of colors that exist and dont exist. I felt serenity coming on, a very, very powerful feeling of peace came over me and the vision changed to white. Fractal patterns of blue and red in small lines came in from the sides and then the top. Here is where I can no longer describe what I saw, right after it became 3-d (thats about the closest approximation, I dont really know what it was). I was entangled in it, and I thought about humans, how we talk with our mouths, our faces, our gestures, what we dont say. Humans are all connected. And then what I thought couldnt and wouldnt happen, did. The feeling got even more intense and I was no longer laying on the futon. I was totally immersed in this world, and I felt as though I might come apart, that my molecules would fail to stay together. My friend asked me if I was ok, so I opened my eyes, saw the concerned look on his face and said "Dude, I'm experiencing my trip, you keep doin what you were doin....except you cant smoke that cig in here, you gotta go outside.." I went back to the vision, until my friend asked me to go outside, where the trip continued.... It wouldn't be until several weeks later that I finally came to terms with what I had experienced. I came to believe that this is the ultimate goal over lifes - there are certain lessons that you must learn, and you are reincarnated after each death until you've learned everything you need to. Then you earn a spot in the "interconnectedness" as I called it, where everything combines with everything else, all is one, there is peace and harmony. That, to me, is the point of living.

That was obviously more about the experience than the visual, but the visual was a large part of it. The other one that day was the same sort of thing. Everything has its purpose, obviously the visuals happen for a reason.

 

Did 'it' happen? If it didnt , well that, talking to yuor friends kept it from happening if it didnt after...Let yourself come apart

and about visuals yeah they are very cool I enjoy them lots in the coming down part but the coming up is just not about them for me. ...if I look at them, and try to analyze and all, im movin too slow, rationalizing. And ill get caught if I wonder too long at some point. But thats me...when the light comes, then you go to sleep, stop lookin...

I just dont like lsd anymore to give me only introspection and those theories and all..I ve had my load of self emissions....now I want to see beyond me , I wanna be free...

 

I see what you're saying. But I feel a bit different about tripping in general, because my friend and I have only tripped together. It's more like me and him chillin and exploring everything. He's my best friend, so when we trip it's like a simultaneous trip, even though we both know that each is going to experience it slightly differently. Every time, it's been far more about the mood and what we're doing than what we're seeing. At first, we'd try to describe to each other what we saw, but found that explaining that wasn't worth anything, and that there were better things to do.

What do you mean by "it"? If you're talking about ego death, I'm pretty sure I was close to there, I just didn't know it. I found out through reading after that experience what ego death is. I'm torn on deciding how easy it would be for me to do. On the one hand, I have had times (like those described above) on acid and several times on weed (some skunk, one hitter-quitter...that my friend and I couldn't even finish a bowl and he actually couldn't drive) where I feel myself coming apart. On the other hand, I've been told that I have a very strong ego. I've seen a therapist once, and based on what I told her about how I experience things and think about the world, she gave a suggestion for a course of action that she gives to almost no one. She talked about some sort of intensive psychoanalytical psychotherapy or something like that. I think, based on some research about how LSD was used clinically, it's a very similar procedure, 'cept without the LSD. Her reasoning was that she thought I could handle the mental rigors of tearing into my psyche and be able to deal with what I find out. Sound familiar?

On a completely different topic, but related to above, does anyone know about the possiblity of using LSD in a clinical setting? What lengths would I have to go to to make that happen? I was thinking of asking the lady I see, but I have a feeling that would end poorly.

 

Ok...Well thats because you are talking more light doses...It becomes gradually less about what you are doing, things switch. Instead of visuals being background and your world being physical world, visuals become your world, physical becomes background. Until you cant see physical world anymore ...With some bigger doses, like 30 minutes after the effects start its not about what your doin anymore, unless I guess, like you say, you have a strong ego and you might decide its not time to go . If you try to do stuff youll find its very hard until impossible and pathetic...Talking coherently becomes completely out of reach...Some dont notice it and becoem animals or even cavemen , some panic, some dont care and some just lay back...

 

Yeah, I kind of figured that's what would happen. The last time, we were going to take three hits, but the guy we got them from suggested not to, cuz we hadn't done it that many times. We got the three anyway, but the day of, another friend asked if he could buy two, so we all had two of some pretty decent shit. I'm planning on tripping again sometime soon, hopefully 4 or 5 hits this time...well, actually, whatever it would take to get me into one of those states you're talking about. I have some friends of a friend who trip all the time, apparently, so I'm gonna go through them and if theyre gettin shit, ill get more, if they got some dank shit, ill get 4 or 5.

Part of the only reason I'm confident in doing this is because I have a group of about 4 guys who have tripped before, and we're all on the same level mentally and we see life the same way. Plus the one guy has seen some crazy shit on acid (himself turning into what he called a "creature" while eating popcorn) so I trust him to watch out and help if needed. I'm excited.

 

I think along the same track as you do. I think that (non-addictive or not likely to be addictive) drug use is fine, when it's for the right reasons.. problem being, most people don't use for the right reasons. Exploration, like you said, is fine.. when people want to open their minds to ideas that they want to integrate into their sober lives. When people just use drugs for 'fun,' though, or to escape their problems (worst reason ever), that's when they get into trouble; they forget how to have fun, or how to deal with their problems, without using. Those people do give drug use a bad name.

 

goin for 4 or 5 hits neuronaut? Youll see its mind blowing

But be careful...Your 'strong ego' thing.......

your comprehension of lsd... ...At some point, a trip becomes beyond human understandment. I donno if you hold to it hard but... Humans need time to understand with thoughts process , and you might come to the realization its always the same moment.... . In a second, alot of stuff can happen.... Time is a human perception...And at some point, if you cannot accept that you can't analyze or concept whats happening, if you wont accept the games between your ego and the trip are coming to an end...well things go bad. If ya can accept, go to heaven ...Just think about the last mentioned.

Great intelligence can be a trap with inexperienced people...And become a great tool to find the way

 

I think I know what you're saying about the games between ego and the mind when the trip is ending, if I read your statement correctly. That last trip, the one I described, ended on a slightly sour note. The cause was not enough good sleep the night before, getting up early to march in a parade and my back being sore from wearing my drums for a long period of time. I was physically uncomfortable. Then, the visuals stopped their flowing manner (my friend and I ended up going to a party later that night, and as we were waiting for a ride, the acid switched gears on me) and became static...the pattern from the ceiling was superimposed on the carpet. It was cool, but my mind tried as hard as it could to stay in the "flow." I became upset. Having experienced that, I think that from now on, I'll be better able to deal with the acid doing different things.

And about the time thing...you may think it's ridiculous, but I've done it with pretty much every emotion. I read an account (on Erowid, the one where the guy and his friends took liquid and he ate the bottle it was in, and they climed a mountain near the house) where the guy got stuck in a time loop. As I was reading that, I imagined what I imagine that must have felt like. And I tell you, it felt fucked up. I don't know how that would feel to have that actually happen, but when I read it, I didn't feel like I'd be scared.

Utter chaos...I think I'd be able to deal. I did a lot of talking to my girlfriend and a few other people about my experience, and through talking about it, I came to some conclusions about acid and moods and memories and how I've experienced my life. I think that a willingness to have it happen is a great step toward being able to cope with things getting ridiculous.

I actually would consider myself to be more resistant physiologically to psychadelics, because the first time my friend and I tripped together, we both had the same amount of the drug, and he reported a much more intense trip than I felt. Part of the problem, at least in my mind, is that I'm LOOKING for these things to happen, I want the drug to do specific things, so I'm essentially blocking the drug. I'm not fighting the effects, I'm stopping them from starting at all. That's why I want to try a higher dose - at a certain point, even if you have a mind to control it, you can't. I found that the first time I tripped, when it was really shitty acid, I could turn it on and off and that certain things (like when my friends turned on Star Wars and the dialouge was really shitty) would make it stop, only to have other things, such as playing with a Rubiks cube make it come back.

I'll use the example of having a strong ego being a good thing for intensive therapy (I remembered, the actual name of what I'm supposed to do is psychodynamic therapy - shorter, very very intensive). You have to have a strong ego because you're seriously tearing into who you are as a person and what makes up your personality. I equate that to needed a strong ego for the use of psychedelics because I see psychedelics as a tool to explore your personallity. If you have a weak ego, and you see yourself from a different perspective that you don't like, you could freak out, whereas if you have a strong ego, you may simply see that, say "I don't like that" and have the wherewithall to change that image. Or accept it and say "hey, that's how some people might look at me." And that leads me to my next thought on psychedelics - while they may be a trip in your own mind, they can invariably lead to realizations about things outside yourself.

But, just in case I happen to not be able to handle it... I have thought about this, and this is why I have selected the person I have to be my trip sitter. He has helped me out before when things were getting kinda rough for various reasons, and we're pretty similar guys. He's mature, very in control of everything he does, and I respect him a lot. i feel comfortable around him, and the first trip was an amazing experience mostly because he was there. The second time (first time both me and my best friend tripping) we also spent a good deal of time with this guy (marimba is one of the coolest things to listen to - watching this guy play with four mallets in his hands was mind-blowing).

I think I can handle it, so I'm gonna be able to. All of the experiences that were bad that I've heard or read about came from someone doing a high dose without intending to or without knowing. All I have to do is be in a good mood that day, have it be a nice day outside, have my shit done, have slept well the night before and get in a positive outlook mode. I'll be fine, and I'll be sure to tell y'all about it after it happens.

 

ok im lotsa stoned and cant read too well but...no if you take 5 hits like you plan and you are close to peakin thats wha im talkin bout ;p. All I talk about is the imo important part of a trip im tryin to have you experience, when your game will stop Theres a transition between here and there. Depending on the dose youll spend lots or short time there, or just not...I dont know youll see , just relax and lay down. Dont ask yourself too much questions thats all! Be confident good stuff will happen...But lsd is like that sometimes for some, they are always waiting for something that they wait to happen but it doesnt happen, so they try again...

Ok ok... so intelectual and introspective personalities, more self conscious , is that 'strong'... If so well it is the strong egos who are more likely to freak out I guess. Those who dont like losing control. Great intelligence can be a trap, but it can show you the way!...But everybodys different you might be liek my friend who always says he didnt trip hard cuz he expects too much. But all you need is the right dose...My problem is that I greatly overdosed the first time and now I am often scared when the effects start, even if its a small dose...I always like have the doubt its goin too strong, but I end up ah could have taken more...I try to work on that though, it was kind of a trauma.


And I cant fiugre out how you do all those long messages in a night or so...you must feel like your brain is frying or sometn

Andabout the time loop thing...You cannot figure out how it is no matetr how smart you are, cuz your tryin to experience it as human that has time...What i say is dont pack yourself with precise expectations, personally they are always blown away by the real thing

 

It's always hard for people to understand what I mean when I say I've felt certain things (like what it would to lose a loved one, or that I can imagine how it would have felt to be in a infinite time loop) and frankly I'm suprised I haven't yet met someone who does something similar. I can't replicate it at will, but I swear to you, when I read that account, my heart was racing and I felt like I was tripping. It was weird. Maybe it actually felt different to experience that, but I have felt what I think is an approximation.

I think this be enough discussion of "ego this" and "ego that". The bottom line is I think I'm ready to do this, that I can handle whatever this intriguing molecule throws at me. And we all know that mental state is paramount to accomplishing something.

(or maybe I'm just reckless)

And I can write like this cuz thats just how my mind works. I've been told I talk like a book, and I always just talk how I think. Maybe it's cuz I read so much as a kid.

Hopefully it'll be soon.

 

yeah anyways...yeah i have empathy too putting in myself in other;s shoes , and being able to kinda live another situation...lotsa people can! I can always relive aspects of lsd trips manually, its like light flashbacks i can access, and I tell you, its far from experiencing the real thing, your mind fails to make concept of certain experiences, sometimes its pretty opposite...

But you kinda remind me of me...And I care alot bout people even without knowing em , not wanting you to have the same lecture I had my first time, didnt want all the love to fall through my umbrella, and love it doesnt care ...but wtf, you are ready man, you know yourself alot it seems!

This is crazy talk.

But wtf, importance is lsd can bring you to a state of the most simple ectasy, commonly called ego death and i hope you can reach it, if youd like to. Not all doses permit this though, you have to take a good bit of today's stuff. A glimpse of heaven is enough to change your life...The rest is just rediscovery of (new?) Neuronaut, if we can say it like that...