Post-Industrial Revolution Society

Dude

What a surprise that Pepik and Balbus hold the position they do, some people are just insanely predictable, and some things never change.

But I notice you are not addressing what I’ve said – why do the things that conspiracy theorists often seem to advise people to do actually seem to be the very things that would increase the power of the wealthy?

That’s my major gripe with this stupidity – its aim seems to be to help the rich gain more power than they already have.

I’m fighting against that so is it surprising I’m against your views?

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I didn't write this to debate with the likes of them, and I refuse to delve into a battle with either one of them, complete and total waste of MY time, they have their view, and I have mine, we're all stubborn and steadfast in our perspectives and a long time ago I chose to agree to disagree, history will determine the victor.

It is as I’ve say – people must either accept your viewpoint without question or they are idiots.

That’s the problem; this is the certitude of closed minds, a fundamentalist religion, ‘The church of the latter day conspiracy theorists’

I have my views and I’m happy to debate them and defend them something people like you and Rat seem unable to do.

Your claims to be fighting tyranny but tyrants are the ones that refuse to debate their views.

 

Carl

But man, I’ve come close to doing it, travelled around as a migrant worker for a few years. Often had no money, lived in places with no electricity or running water (squats, tents, caves etc). Helped out people along the way and received a lot of help from strangers. I was basically off the map as far as any government was concerned (no credit cards, no bank account, etc).

It sounds romantic in fact it can be a hard life, being hungry isn’t all its cracked up to be and neither is having toothache and not having the money for a dentist. I wouldn’t want to raise a family doing it, but there are millions of people around the word that have no choice but to live that life with little chance of escape. But if you try it remember to not grow old and don’t get ill.

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As to the link - the thing is that the Daily Mail is one of the most right wing tabloid newspapers in Britain. It strongly supported the dismantling of many welfare programmes and other policies of the Thatcher government that vastly increased the numbers of people that lived “in the streets with no place to shelter…begging for money from passers-by”. In fact it has told its readers not to give money to beggars and wondered why the police do not come down hard on such vagrants.

This newspaper also supported the dismantling of labour laws that have made peoples wages fall in real terms and backed privatisations that have made many commuters travel so much harsher in the UK, remember those people that “hurry to work each morning, unsmiling, in the chase for money”.

I could go on.

The point is that this newspaper has long pushed a neo-liberal, right wing agenda, that makes this article seem like satire to me.

As to Vanuatu maybe you should read up on it a bit especially its economy -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanuatu#Economy
It’s based on subsistence farming 65%, fishing, tourism and something called ‘offshore financial services’ (sounds like helping rich people evade tax)

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Gardener

So go and live like a latter day peasant (it means country worker or farm labourer) it’s very easy to do, you just join the migrant workers down at any farm. The thing is that peasants are very rarely free they are tied in many ways just like any other worker.

 

Once again we have a lot of bitching between layers of rhetoric but no constructive ideas.

The accusation still stands - why do the things that conspiracy theorists often seem to advise people to do actually seem to be the very things that would increase the power of the wealthy?

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^lol........I never said I wouldn't back up my position, I never said I refuse to answer questions or that anyone who doesn't believe the way I do is an "idiot", i'll happily talk to anyone/debate anyone else, besides you, or Peipik (Pointbreak), both of you are a waste of time, you Balbus, want to debate E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G no matter what it is, I believe your addicted to debate, or arguing or something......don't care, both of you are a waste of time, neither one of you has ever said anything the least bit thought provoking, and both of you specialize in muddying the waters, double speak, straw man tactics, scapegoating, transference.....I could go on, simply put, neither one of you is the least bit enjoyable to debate or enjoy a conversation with, because both of you have personal agendas, Yours Balbus, is to find a way to make yourself appear superior at all costs, often times sidetracking discussions, debating minute insignificant points, and restructuring of words, to be honest, I just plain feel that your both a waste of my time, your not worth the energy, you don't want to get to the truth or figure anything out, you just want to play a game............i'm past that. This is the last I will respond to either of you. (Although without a doubt you will type some more mindless drivel to waste bandwith, have at it..........lots of egomaniacs talk to the wall)

 

The fundamental problem here is that you believe that the dollar is directly controlled by the government rather than by the economy as a whole. While the federal reserve can make short-term changes and attempt to influence it through the money supply, it is (nearly) impossible to make long-term improvements/changes through simple monetary policy.

The American economy as a whole is on some level stagnating (this has a wide variety of causes) -> less drive for foreign investment -> less demand for the American Dollar on international markets -> decreasing value.

Simply blaming the federal reserve is scapegoating. There are many causes, and the American public is equally guilty. Look at trends in their savings rate over the last 50 years.

 

The Federal Reserve is not a government institution, so I don't think anyone who knows what they're talking about believes the dollar is controlled by the government. The Federal Reserve controls interest rates and inflation. They are the ones who print the money and thus determine the value of it. When you create massive amounts of inflation, you directly influence the value of the dollar. That is what inflation is.

 

Barring the government-appointed board of governors.

As far as money-supply controlling the international price of money, it is far more demand based. Which the government cannot control.

 

Fiscal Policy is able to affect the value ( perception of value) of the Dollar.


Dont think that a 1/2 point cut in Federal Funds Rate will cause great inflation or crash the currency.

More and more goverment taxation and spending has a greater potential to crash the Dollar than the rate cut. Budget and Trade deficits are choking the Dollar.

The Chineese Stock Market and its inflated valuations are more fragile than anything in The US.

 

If you believe that because it has a puppet government-appointed board of puppet governors, that makes it a government institution (when the banks that make up the FED are completely private), then by all means go ahead and believe it. It's nothing more than the dog and pony show given to the public so they think it's a government institution, when the banks control the government and tell their puppet in the oval office who to appoint. But if it makes you feel better, than go ahead and believe that. I could argue with morons all day about this, but is it really worth it?

 

The dollar is over-inflated to begin with. That's why the Euro and Canadian dollar at record highs and the US dollar is at a record low. Don't expect it to get any better. It will only get worse as they continue to print more and more money and cut interest rates, and it will eventually crash completely, which is exactly the plan so they can bring in the Amero.

 

Rat runs to a conspiracy theory. What a shocker.

 

But Rat, the FED is not made up of private banks. You have learned nothing since you last tried promoting this theory months ago.

The reason you and Rob won't debate me is because I know what I'm talking about and you just repeat what conspiracy websites tell you to think. You can't back up, defend, or even explain your views. You can only repeat what you are told to think.

To cut to the chase, here's where you go wrong.

1. You refer to the "FED" but you don't even know what the "FED" means. The answer is not much when you say it, since the Federal Reserve System has three key parts and if you are trying to understand how the FRS works you need to refer to a specific part of the FRS. I debated you for about 10 pages and even after I explained it to you several times you still didn't understand it. Months later you are babbling about the "FED" again.

2. None of your links prove private banks control the FRS. You can copy and paste to infinity, but when I read your articles I can always show where they fail to actually explain and prove their point.

3. It is an objective, proveable, fact that private banks do not control the FOMC which is the part of the FRS that sets interest rates. You have never been able to disprove this and usually do not even try. You make a big song and dance about the "FED" being controlled by private banks and this being the means by which the globalists control the economy and are bringing ruin, only to throw the theory out the window and say it makes no difference who controls the "FED" since the globalists control everything. And this is what your conspiracies always come down to. There is a superficial attempt to pretend there is theory and research involved, when really it just involves repeating conspiracy theory mantras and then retreating into the circular logic of "its a conspiracy because the conspiracists control everything".

 

Very good, Pepik, you can cut and paste "facts" from the Federal Reserve website. You have proven yourself an honorable shill. Good job! David Rockefeller thanks you.

 

"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States"

-- Sen. Barry Goldwater (Rep. AZ)

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board administers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money"

-- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions.They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers"

-- Congressional Record 12595-12603. Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

 

Dude

Oh come on isn’t that a bit lame – you’ll defend what you say and answer questions, just not with people that criticise your views.

So if people already agree with you you’re willing to answer their questions but if someone asks questions that show they might not agree with you, you won’t

(PS : Strange that I come here to debate seeing that this forum is a place to debate)

And still there is the elephant sized question that none of our regular conspiracy theorist fundamentalists will answer –

Why do the things that conspiracy theorists often seem to advise people to do actually seem to be the very things that would increase the power of the wealthy elite?

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But it goes further than that have you noticed how these people seem to want to disrupt or derail virtually any left leaning debate into what things could be done.

Oh openly right wingers do it, but they’re usually up front about there opposition and mostly have alternatives ideas on what to do, that in most cases you can have a rational debate about.

But the conspiracy theorists don’t have a clue what to do and their ideas are far from rational and they always shy away from any real debate.

I mean if someone tries to talk about political reform, up pops Rat or one of the other acolytes of the church of latter day conspiracy and begins to rant about it all being a sham and there being nothing any one can do, so it’s better to just give up before even thinking about it.

Try examining alternative economic ideas and again Rat or another conspiracy fundamentalist will appear shouting about Zionist bankers and Satan worshippers and how nothing can be done and so people might as well just give up any idea of trying.

They offer no realistic or rationally based alternatives they just seem to want people to stop trying to think of them.

But there is one thing Rat is very determined to get across and that is that in no way should people even contemplate left wing ideas.

So what’s going on?

Why do these supposed conspiracy theorists seem to be advising people to do nothing to actually oppose the wealthy elite?


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The Federal Reserve Bank, its Board of Govenors and Chairman are one of the most dillengently observed and closely monitored things in the western world.

Every day, thousands of independent investors and brokers read and interpert its actions; these players have money riding on picks and investment positions that would make Las Vegas look like a Sunday afternoon bingo game. The payrolls supported by these industries float New York City.

There is and entire industry devoted to Fed watching.

These players are informed and would hardly bet the fortunes that they do if Bernake was practicing voodo economics. If The Fed was corrupt, the price of gold would jump to $3,000 an ounce as all bonds and stocks would be dumped.

Please don't think that Investors are dupes, sure they have inside info and know how to work the system, but it shouldent be a mystery to the common man.

 

Please don't buy into the cartoon that all of these capitalists are evil trolls.


Look at New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg who made a mint, he could be chilling on a tropical island or burried in a bunker somewhere. Instead he is out there governing The City he loves. The ultimate citizen. When instead, he could concetrate entirely on making money.

Running New York is not easy and Bloomberg's smooth, non-partisan manner is an inspiration, He won re-election with 70% of the vote. ( Don't ask about who the opposition fielded )

 

Bloomberg, as corrupt as he is, would rather exert his power attacking people's right to free speech by making it unlawful to protest in the city without a permit, or use a camera for more than 30 seconds to film. Yeah, he's my hero.