Partner Swapping Arrangements

Glad to see this thread reopened! Thank you to the moderator that filtered and reopened this thread.

 

Is anybody interested in this thread anymore? It was going well until a troll invaded, but that's been removed.

 

I am interested but was waiting for someone else to post something interesting up!

 

I am too.
I love the idea of swapping in my brain. The thought of me and may wife going at it with another couple get me very excited. But I know after I would go crazy and want to kill him.
I admire you though.

 

Absolutely. I don't think a weak, troubled, or new relationship would survive something like this for very long. I just don't see it happening. Jealousy would be lurking around every corner.

On the other hand, you know there are exceptions to every rule and trend. Given the way Amy and Chris' relationship got started, none of their friends thought it stood a chance. Everything about it has been unconventional, but it works for them, and has been working for years.

I'll give you two answers, starting with "conventional" swinging. I haven't done much of this myself, so I'll pass along what Amy has told me. She learned a lot by exchanging stories with other couples in swinger bars, when she first got married. She didn't have a lot of bad experiences, personally.

If you don't know the other couple very well, they could turn out to be a little bit nutty, or otherwise something other than what they first appeared to be. Maybe one of them has jealousy issues, or a bad temper after drinking, or suddenly doesn't want to go along with the ground rules that everybody agreed to for positions and practices or safe sex. You might have to make a hasty exit.

Of course, you can run into those problems in ordinary one-on-one heterosexual dating. I just think there are going to be more strange characters in swinger's clubs than you encounter in life in general. If you tend to be a fairly good judge of character, you will probably be okay. At least you will be getting feedback from your spouse after that initial conversation with new people.

After you have had an encounter (or two) with another couple, they might have a different reaction to it from you. Maybe they aren't very discrete, which could be bad if they live too close to you. Maybe they will get a little too into you, if you know what I mean, and make you feel uncomfortable. Or worst of all, maybe one of them is looking for a serious relationship, or even to switch partners permanently. I think all you can do there is basic stuff to protect your privacy. Don't do too much too close to home. And give them an e-mail address and cell phone number that you can easily change. Give yourself a way to disappear off their radar, if you need to.

For the longer-term relationship with the couple you know fairly well or very well (my area of experience), you also run the risk that one or both of them will eventually want much more out of the whole thing than you bargained for. No matter how that gets resolved, there will be no going back to having the same kind of friendship with them that you once had. I think the best way to prevent that is not getting together too often. That keeps the heat from getting turned up too high on the pressure cooker.

Last of all, there is the STD risk. A lot of long-term group commitments involve STD tests and closed group monogamy agreements so that condoms won't be needed, but one or both other people could cheat on you at some point, and the blood tests might not be scheduled often enough to catch it in time. The risk depends on how well you know the other couple, how trustworthy they are, and how serious both are about staying healthy. The other guy might have other girls on the side that his clean-freak wife doesn't know about. Any partner can cheat on you and bring home an STD, but this deal gives two more people the opportunity to do that.

So far (knock on wood), I haven't experienced any of these problems.

I don't know anything about the problems that larger poly groups have to deal with, so maybe Steamwater will tell us something about that.

 

We started perhaps the worst way, by using an on-line service. Maybe the on-line service wasn't at fault, but we weren't real sure how to screen other couples. That led to one bad experience. We were smarter the second time, but even then it was a risk. Once we connected with a compatible couple, they gave us names of others they thought might be a good fit. Since then we hardly use the on-line resource.

Other risks? Karen_J points out STDs. What if the other couple turns out to be something less than you'd hoped? This could range from personality clash or sexual incompatibility to them wanting an act you're not comfortable with and trying to force the issue. The latter is why I want adjoining rooms or have my husband present. Sex with a couple you don't know well is risky. If you have friends you can approach about a swap that might be more safe, but I've never been in that situation.

 

You might consider contacting them and arranging a phone conversation. Skype would probably be better; then you could see if they resemble the photos they posted online and also read their body language (okay there's not much of a picture, but at least facial expressions). Extended discussions are best. People can put up a good front for a while, but then you can start to tell if they're consistent and honest with who they claim to be. Have some questions prepared. Even then there are no guarantees. When you go to meet them you still have the opportunity to back down. I'd suggest flying in the night before and meeting for breakfast the next day. Casual conversation can help put you at ease or underscore you've made a bad choice. Better to find out over coffee than naked and vulnerable in the bedroom.

 

I'd say they're mostly the same relationship problems that anybody has to deal with in dating, for the most part. But there is the additional challenge of fitting new relationships into your life, hopefully without making any of your existing partners feel neglected, left out, or afraid that you'll leave them. And then there's the challenge of dealing with your own fears of being neglected, left out, or abandoned when your lover finds a new relationship. It requires lots of talking. It's been said that polyamory requires three hours of processing for each hour of sex, and sometimes that's true. In retail, the three most important things are location, location, and location. In poly, the three most important things are communication, communication, and communication.

It helps if you've all got some skill in communication, and know how to avoid blaming people, how to take responsibility for your own feelings, and how to stay in a loving place. There are people who teach that, such as NVC (nonviolent communication) and HAI (human awareness institute), and it's hard, but you can learn to communicate in a clear, loving, nonjudgmental way.

There are STD challenges as well, but also regular disease challenges. I know people who are fine having intercourse with new people without much knowledge of their sex history or practices as long as condoms are used, but will only engage in open-mouth kissing with people that they are in serious relationship with, to avoid all the diseases that can be transmitted orally (including influenza, mononucleosis, and many more diseases that are even more damaging). It helps to have some agreement on acceptable practices, especially among people that are not separated from you by a condom.

In our group, the main agreements that we have are annual testing and disclosure of new sexual contacts, including what sexual practices were involved and the new person's sex history, general practices, and the results of their most recent STD tests. Sometimes the information is good enough for one person but not another, and condoms are used between them until better information is available.

And one of the biggest challenges is time. I spend time with my wife, time with my lovers, time at work, and time attending various activities. When am I gonna clean the stove?

 

So if and when we find another couple who is curious about swapping, how do you start off talking about the technical details such as ground rules and safe sex? Also does everyone make plans in advance to meet somewhere and swap, or is it more spontaneous?

 

If they're looking and are serious, the technical talk's not a big deal. It's expected. As for spontaneity, I'm sure there are some who are into flings, but that wouldn't be us.

 

Glad you can make it work.

 

The time to talk about ground rules and safe sex is after you've gotten to know each other enough to know that you're all interested in a group sex experience, and before you start having sex. I've said, "Let's have a safe sex talk." That works; most people expect it, and in fact, most people in the poly community require it. You might then work out where and when to meet, or be spontaneous, depending on the circumstances.

I refer to "ground rules" as "boundaries." My boundaries might be no unprotected intercourse, or no anal penetration, or whatever. It's good to be clear about those as well.

 

I agree - once you have met and had the first session together and you are all interested to meet further then it's time to sit and talk about your common denominator, what each of you wants and where you see it going.

Take it slow at first and just open the lines of communication slowly as you go along - so long as everybody is getting pleasure from the experience, but remember you have to go the speed of the slowest of you. And outside of sexual encounters you don't have to open up your whole lives - be circumspect on this at first until you are really comfortable.

Once regular it is vital that you all get tested and then keep it within the group.

Enjoy

Simon :sunny:

 

This past weekend was our little group's last adventure of the year, postponed from November due to a parenting issue. The other guy dropped his wife off at our house as he was picking me up to go on a little weekend getaway to the mountains. When I returned with him to the house on Sunday, we were all four together long enough to have some sexual fun as a group.

Saturday night, I sat in the huge hotel lobby bar and looked around the room, wondering how many of the other guests were living their lives trying to please other people, or living up to traditional standards that they were taught as children, by people who were passing them along from previous generations, and feeling bad about themselves because they don't honestly care about those values.

I know that I am lucky.

Today, I am appreciative of what I have, and I'm not taking any of it for granted. A life of true freedom is a rare and priceless thing.

 

So it was a foursome?

 

I couldn't do this like with someone I thought of as like my man u know but like a friend I'm real close with and whom I also fuck swapping is amazing cause u get to fuck and get fucked with ur best friend lol and enjoy the sight of each others orgasum. Just make sure this is something ur really into and that u won't get mad when ur partner goes for it hard core. I doubt u will get what u want from this with ground rules u need to just go for it but as some one before said safety first.

 

Yeah, that's my favorite arrangement. The other girl likes the one-on-one encounters more, so we compromise and everybody gets what they want.

 

See the first post in this thread. None of that has changed.

 

I don't really care if all four of us are together or if we're in separate rooms, although I do want to be in connected or adjoining rooms. I explained why in an earlier post http://www.hipforums.com/newforums/showpost.php?p=7007844&postcount=39

I think the guys are more particular about the arrangements. I'm comfortable in front of another couple. I guess that's not entirely true. I usually have jitters till we get undressed and then I realize we're all in the same predicament. That's what we're there for, right? The guys sometimes seem embarrassed to get hard in front of another guy. Whatever. They're not having sex with each other and we're all doing everything we can to increase the sexual excitement, so it's expected everyone will be aroused. Inevitably we're all together at some point. The guys like to see the two girls together, and honestly I love being with a woman. I don't actively seek them in my personal life, but when we're together and she's looking her sexiest, I'm aroused, and the guys are spent, we girls are going to enjoy each other!