Overpopulation is an united-statians mindtrip!!!

It's not just Left wing groups, it's Right wing groups as well. Yes, I believe most large organizations are controlled from the top down. This is done through compartmentalization, where those at the bottom are unaware of what goes on at the top. This compartmentalized structure holds true with governments, non-government organizations, corporations, religion, the media, military and education. EVERYTHING!

Only through this compartmentalized structure can things be controlled from the top by the few and powerful, without the knowledge of those at the bottom. The further up on the pyramid you go, the fewer and more powerful the people become.



Let's take the media, for instance. The reporters answer to the editors, who answer to the Ruppert Murdoch's and Conrad Black's, who answer to the top shareholders. It is actually a lot more complicated than this, I am simply trying to give you an example.

First of all, I never claimed to have a definitive solution, let alone one people will agree with. I have been more than forthcoming in my admission of this. Like I have said before, knowledge is power. The more people wake up to the truth, which has been denied to them, the more of a paradigm shift we begin to see within society. A couple years ago, if you said that 9/11 was an inside job, people would think you're nuts. That's not so much the case as it used to be, which shows that people are indeed waking up. When people wake up, they break the illusion. They break the trance that has been cast over them by what I call the matrix, which is the illusionary veil that has been pulled over our eyes. The more people wake up to this illusion, the more this illusion falls apart, as does their system of control that is based on this illusion.

Unfortunately, I believe what is coming is coming, and the system is not going to be brought down without them bringing us down with them. While people are waking up, most of the public remains asleep and right where the establishment wants them. Most people are more concerned with football and cars than what is happening in the world around them, and this is unfortunate for us all.

Once you understand how the system is set up, and how rapidly their agenda is progressing, you begin to understand that there isn't a whole lot that can be done the way society is currently brainwashed into this Left/Right, good/bad, black/white paradigm. I am simply being realistic here. I'm not trying to chicken out. If I thought there was a definitive solution, I would say so. I personally believe in non-violence, and the most non-violent approach is through enlightenment.

There is a saying that says "...And the truth shall set you free." I believe that even if there is nothing that can be done, it is still important to know the truth, know history, and know where we are headed. To me, there's a spiritual element to knowing the truth, because once you do know the truth and break free from the illusion, you are free whether behind bars or in a concentration camp. Your spirit is free, though your body - which is simply a vehicle for our infinite consciousness - is not.

More important than anything else, I believe it's important for people to know the truth. Once people know the truth it's up to THEM to act in a way in which they see fit.

There is a quote from the movie, The Matrix, where Morpheus says to Neo: "I can only show you to the door. It's up to you to walk through it."

People look to organizations and political parties to bring about change, but have they? It's up to the individual person to act in a way they see fit, based on the information they have. Why do I need to become a revolutionary or the spokesman for some group?

 

This is what you don't understand. You don't have to. But if you're going to go around telling us we're all wrong, then we would like to know what you say is a better way of doing things.

i'm pretty happy with that reply though, but hold up, I must also add I just don't like the way you assume that people like me aren't really willing to find a new and apolitical way to escape the bounds of this society and really come up with new and alternative ways of living. Maybe you haven't assumed, but thats what it sounds like.

I am probably as apolitical as you, I don't depend on any political groups to save me, and I don't really think that my vote is of much use (remember its compulsary in Australia), but I still don't mind taking cues from anarchist Ideas in my quest to find a way of living which doesn't conform with this society which, as you say, could well be controlled from the top down.

The absolute god honest truth is that you jump into threads telling everyone that they're believing what the government wants to believe but you don't even know any of them, or what deep inside they plan to do.

I completely admit there are those lefties that simply wave the flag and think the solution is simply remaining within this corrupt system and moving towards their 'left' ideas. But I as a liberal (which connotates progressive thinking) believe the whole thing should be dismantled from the bottom up.

 

Oh for heaven's sakes, answer my question. Of course most corps are controlled from the top down, ppl in subordinate positions report to those higher up and those higher up are not required to report to those below, i'm not disputing that and that is not new information btw. I worked in large corps and report to those higher than me who have no requirement to report back to me. Rat, I'm not disagreeing with you on the control of power.

What I'm disputing is your statement that overpopulation is a myth that doesn't have environmental consequences. I'm not even bringing up the ecological effects with regards to resources. Let's say for the sake of arguement that oil is infinite, hell lets says it can be feasibly synthesized in the lab. Now that we got that out of the way let's bring our attention to wild habitats...

Logic and reason would led me to believe that the more ppl we put on this earth, the more ppl we gotta house, the more this is gonna eat away at wildlife habitat, you're gonna have to give me substantial reasons to believe otherwise. I'm already seeing it in the region surrounding me, green spaces turned to development.

Even if we put all those ppl in mile high skyscrapers and the place where they work, shop, etc is also the place where they live that way we raise the carrying capacity of the earth. Infinite human pop. will still squeeze out other species with dire consequences to bio-diversity. This is the heart of environmental ethics.

 

Pressed Rat seems concerned with other people controlling his life. So it would be logical that he would want to pursue a lifestyle which involves greater freedom. I don't own a car, therefore I don't have to conform to any licencing, or registration, or corpo-rat insurance. I don't have to buy corpo-rat gas, or pay several kinds of federal, and state taxes. Bicycle laws are rarely enforced, i've even seen Albuquerque police on bikes roll right thru stop signs. I don't eat meat, therefore i don't support a large part of the corpo-rat food industry. I don't drink alcohol or smoke tobacco and therefore don't support corpo-rat intoxicants with high federal and state taxes. I campout free on public lands, and if they are controlled by the Club of Rome, they don't seem to have the time to come and harass me or tell what to wear at hotsprings. When i rent rooms, i don't sign leases, sometimes i do work trades for rent. I help out with food not bombs, so i get a lot of food for free and help a lot of other people get food for free. I don't have kids so i don't have a lot of potential legal and financial entanglements.
So it seems a lifestyle that pursues freedom also seems pretty environmentally conscientious, and tends to reduce consumption and overpopulation. Personally i think most corpo-rat-ions are bad enough to begin with and you don't have to believe in some secret cabal to make them seem any worse. I do go to locally owned co-ops and cafes and poetry/music clubs and if they are controlled by the Club of Rome it would be real news to the owners. I guess the Club of Rome would be pretty busy if they controlled everything

 

I know lots of ppl in central Ontario in places that were once rural lands. Over time they have seen (i.e. witnessed) increasing development. When development occurs on an environmentally sensitive land like Oak Ridges Moraine they react. It is very logical to blame development for the increasing loss of green spaces cos well what was once green space is now biuldings and then it would follow that what bring development is well ppl. ppl demand houses. This is just logical sense. No club of rome or Elites have pulled the strings to led these ppl to believe that increasing pop. in their land is eating away at green space.

Pressed Rat's preoccupation with the Elite and the System makes him think that they, the Elites, control everybody's thinking every moment of the day.

 

Somehow I don't actually believe this is true, I think you and me are more likely to do these sorts of things. I have done a lot of sleeping in parks, living off of $5 a week, buying only organic rpoduce, well thats about it but its a start. But I don't plan to stop, and pressed rat doesn't know anything about it. As soon as I label myself as a liberal thinker or an anarchist he automatically puts me in the "you are being fooled by the NWO" box.

Anyway, enough of hassling pressed rat. I don't actually think he's entirely wrong, mostly a righteous soapbox preaching wanker

 

so the man tells the farmer to think for himself, and the farmer wants the man to tell him how? if you can't use your brain, it goes unused. the righteous man would be more likely to tell each farmer about the other, simply to inform them there are other ways and leave them to make their own decisions. i doubt he'd make distinctions between wrong and right. there is no wrong and right, only reality and illusions. decide which is which and which you trust.

 

Well, besides natural farming and some other types, there really aren't any other ways of farming. Thats the point im trying to make. Both farmers see that the guy is telling all the farmers on the road that they're wrong, but if at least some of them they've found successful ways to farm, that don't ruin the environment and produce high yields, then why are they all wrong?

I don't know what meaning you took from the analogy but you're reading into it too much.

The righteous man isn't ever going to tell any farmer that they're doing the right thing, he'll just go round to every farm telling them they're wrong, but with no evidence to back it.

Pressed rat does this to anarchists, communists, liberals, conservatives, libertarians - and the list goes on, and in this way he is almost stating his superiority to some of the greatest thinkers in history.

I and many others here can think for themselves, and we are not asking for any advice about what we can do?? ITS PRETTY FUCKING OBVIOUS what to do! We just are confused to fuck as to why having some sort of belief system is wrong, and if its so wrong, then what do you have thats any better? Truth is, pressed rat doesn't have anything better, while hes reading up on conspiracy theories and telling everyone else to do it, anarchists and other folks are actually finding practical ways to tackle these problems, but hey they're still being used by the NWO!!!

Ok, enough of that, i will leave the issue alone now.

 

Is there no overpopulation.

Reduce your life style before!!!

Earth can feed all the people, all the world. Capitalist globalisation cannot.

The problem is not populations from Asia or Africa, the problem is there: pollution and overconsuption in North America and Europa.

Awake!

 

honestly i dunno why every1 attacks rat, all he's doing is spreading the truth, if you okes wanna believe it or not. dunno why people are stuck so much on needing PROOF! the proof is all around us. most people just are'nt ready for the truth, too much for them too handle coz what it come down to is that each an every one of us 'left' or 'right' are pawns, puppets, very difficult for most to believe they are'nt in control of their lives.


the solution lies in making as many people around u aware regardless if they think you mad, once the veil starts lifting theres hope

 

I have read this entire thread and if it were a boxing match I'd score it 10 - 8 for the Rat. Just seems to ring true...solution or not.

 

The simple fact is that we are running out of land and vital resources. With some 300,000 people in the U.S. and rising, these problems are only going to continue to get worse.

 

Pressed Rat:
I don't know what kind of research you've been doing, but you'd better do a little more. To start with, have a look at world population estimates over the last ten centuries or so. You will find an exponential curve that has passed the six billion mark. That's six thound million people! The more people there are, the more babies they produce. Age cohorts, particularly in underdeveloped countries, are skewed toward the younger portion of the population. Decreases in infant mortality have led to more people living to reproductive age, that is, 13 years in humans. At the moment, birth rates in underdeveloped countries are still high (say, 30 per 1000), while death rates have been cut down around 8 per 1000. I don't have the figures in front of me, and they vary from country to country and from year to year.

The demographic shift, so-called, occurs when mean GDP per capita passes a certain value. Industrialization occurs, population shifts from the country to urban areas, and birth rates drop and come more into line with the reduced death rates of developed nations. Europe and North America are examples. But even these areas are still increasing their populations. Furthermore, in huge parts of the world, the demographic shift hasn't happened yet, and may not happen in the foreseeable future.

If you've never heard the term 'Malthusian disaster', look it up. And please don't tell me oil isn't a fossil fuel. Do you think the tooth fairy put it in the ground or something?

There's no capitalist conspiracy out there trying to frighten you, but there are a lot of cold facts that are goddamn scary once you get a grip on them. "The Limits to Growth", a book reporting research based on five simple types of environmental feedback incorporated into a computer model, simply shows that we're running out of resources as exponential population growth continues. And that, my friend, means starvation or pandemics or death due to natural disasters when people build in marginal areas. It means war after war as the new billions of people compete for existing resources. It means continued rape of the planet and annihilation of other species of life in order to produce food for huge numbers of mouths. If you're not scared by any of this, you damn well ought to be. Scared enough, maybe, to limit your own family to one child. Have a good day.

 

I disagree. Capitalism is by its nature, a mass conspiracy usually directed against the poor.

 

I hear that Haiti is what the future is going to be like with the lack of resources and pop exp. At least it looks like they are going to colonize mars (at least for the resources) and fairly soon.

 

It is fair to say that most businessmen, and their hired hands such as foremen and lead hands, have a negative attitude toward the poor, including the working poor of the shop floor. It is also fair to say that these guys do work to influence politicians to keep the minimum wage down, minimize worker's compensation and bust unions. That is, the class struggle is not a struggle of the poor against the rich, but of the rich against the poor.

​

I think the term 'mass conspiracy' gives them too much credit, though. Their first concern is not to rip off the poor, but to destroy other capitalists competing with them in the same industry, like sharks in a feeding frenzy.

Raise one finger. That is a worker defending himself. Raise two fingers. That is two workers defending themselves. Now raise five fingers and form a fist. That is five workers defending themselves in a union.

 

there is not a lack of resources it is that we waste so much, the earth could support 5 times the amount of people here now if everyone consumed 5 times less (which is possible to do).

 

Well said.

I hadn't really thought about it along those lines before, but your right, it is more of a feeding frenzy than a conspiracy.

 

Sorry, Komokwa, you're headed in the wrong direction, my friend. We need five times fewer, not five times more.

By the way, I happen to be in a Twelve Step Program, if you know what that is. And Step 10 is, "We continued to take personal inventory, and when we were wrong, promptly admitted it."

So I have some good news for you as a native person. It's been 514 years now since Christopher Columbus hung a disobedient sailor from the yardarm, and all of us Europeans and other whites have been doing our Step 10.

We're all going back to Europe.