opiate lounge

Thanks man I really appreciate it. I dunno. I guess it's what I get. When you live life like you don't give a shit about anything for 21 years it's going to take more than a few months to get back on track, it just really had me in a positive place mentally feeling how close I was to this job and not just a job but HANDS DOWN the best offer I have EVER COME CLOSE TO GETTING! It was perfect interviews were perfect references were perfect and this one thing is going to pull me down. I just didn't see it coming and it just REALLY put me in a bad spot mentally. Now I'm back to hustlin and unemployment barely scraping by off scraps. I hustle small time work to make ends meet but me and my chick want to move to Colorado in the next 3-5 years and this was the PERFECT job to save probably be able to transfer etc and now I'm pretty much back to square one and it's just hard to swallow. Literally MONTHS of hard work with no payoff. It's just hard to keep my mind strait and not immediately just start doing 5X the drugs I'm doing now and just numb myself to it all like I used to. Brains are fucking stupid.

 

So the thing that screwed you is that you told them you are currently employed but you really haven't been for 3-4 months, and they found out when they called your last employer? That could be a problem, but if they want you badly enough they might overlook that. On the other hand, when they say things like "we'll get with you tomorrow" with an answer it's not good, especially when they could have given you an answer today. So I don't blame you for being discouraged. Just hang in there and look for something else.

 

day 10 no herion, and my dealer called i awnserd and he wanted to know what dr. i went to( he knew i was cleaning up) he said he,s done and wants to go see him, he went to inpaicent rehab before now he wants to try the suboxone method, witch is doing wonders for me. he was up to 30 bags a day though. but for me still going good although i did get a little drunk last night, working on my firepit patio area, planted some shrubs, little spruce trees, and a shitpile of flowers, turned into a nice sit and relax area i actually made something nice for once. been working on it everyday this week, like it,s a replacement for doing drugs or something.
like hydropersistant said above i,ve lived this way for 16 years it might take awhile to retrain my way of doing and thinking. hang in there everyone.

 

Another day another fight stoner. We will make it. I was bad yesterday but that's addiction today is a new day and everyday better is another one no on dope AND THAT DOES COUNT FOR SOMETHING!! It's kinda like going to college (which I have ALSO failed at ANYWAYS!!) it doesn't seem like that homework assignment is a big deal toward your degree just like doing dope doesn't always SEEM like a bad idea when you have been clean, but in reality it's just another step towards the goal YOU set! Not that it's that black and white but you get the idea.

 

I would like to bring up an odd effect that I have always noticed in my opioid career but never really talked about, or even thought about pharmacologically...until a few days ago.

During the opioid "nod," I happen to experience one of the most unusual psychoactive effects of any drug. I will have my eyes clearly shut, but at the same time, I consciously am able to view the surrounding room I am in as though I had a pair of eyes inside my brain that can see through my skull.

Ok. That sounds rather odd, doesn't it? But that is the best way I can put it. What happens is that, with my eyes closed, my consciousness VISUALLY can observe my surroundings, even in a 360 degree manner, and AS IF I was viewing things from the Third Person. I find this to be incredibly interesting.

I will physically feel that my eyes are glued shut, but I can "entertain" myself by viewing my surroundings as if in the Third Person. I honestly don't know the exact mechanism of this and I think that it merits some thought. It is probably the strangest drug experience I have ever gotten, rivaling having walls "breathe" on a psychedelic or having depersonalization on high doses of Cannabis (which, by the way, I find highly disturbing and uncomfortable).

I reckon the following is happening pharmacologically. Recall...the only opioid I use is Buprenorphine, and it has been that way for nearly two years.

Buprenorphine itself is a potent mu-opioid partial agonist, delta-opioid agonist, and kappa-opioid antagonist. The suspect for these "visions" is the kappa receptor, as it is well-known to induce bizzare, pseudo-psychedelic properties if agonized. For example, Salvia's terpine active chemical is a kappa agonist of considerable strength.

What is the cool part is that Buprenorphine is heavily metabolized into Nor-Buprenorphine. This occurs about two hours after sublingual ingestion of Buprenorphine. Nor-Buprenorphine happens to be a FULL agonist at the mu AND kappa receptors. So, at first, Buprenorphine antagonizes the agonization from Nor-Buprenorphine.

However, the half life of the NOR is much longer than Buprenorphine, so after, say, two and a half hours, you are primarily feeling the effects of Nor-Buprenorphine. I think any Suboxone user will agree with me, considering there is a very distinct "second wind" that occurs about two hours into the experience, and, to me at least, it feels like a completely different drug. Obviously, it is the Nor-Buprenorphine taking over as the primary drug.

Interestingly, these "weird nods" I describe, always occur only after about two hours past original ingestion of the Suboxone Film. It NEVER occurs earlier. So, my conclusion is that these "nods" are, in fact, very strong kappa-opioid-agonist effects due to the Nor-Buprenorphine. This explains everything.

Tell me if you have had similar experiences. Also, the following opioids should potentially offer such 'states of mind' due to their kappa-opioid-receptor agonist properties (even if they are also mu or delta agonists):

- Oxycodone
- Morphine
- Meperidine/Demerol (this one especially)
- Talwin (forget the generic and too lazy to look it up)

Let me know your thoughts on this fascinating experience.

 

So that's where my shit went!!

 

@etkearne: On Salvia Divinorum, many people's eyes I've witnessed have been wide open so I can't relate to this phenomena with that.

 

You can't rape the willing! That is my motto in life:2thumbsup:

P.s.- That totally just made me sound like a whore.

 

Yes. I would imagine that the sedation from the activation of the mu-opioid receptors would overpower the tendency for the eyes to remain open on a purely kappa agonist. Like I said, Nor-Buprenorphine is a FULL agonist at the mu site, which interestingly would make it more "euphoric" and sedating than Buprenorphine itself.

I should look up some "trip reports" of Salvia users and objectively screen them for any similarities to what I describe. Other than kappa-opioid-receptor activation, I can think of NO other mechanism that would cause such bizzare effects. And the fact that this effect only occurs after two hours into the experience leads me to think it is due to Nor-Buprenorphine, which I laid out the pharmacological details of above.

This is one of those weird effects that, perhaps, is too complex to describe with our present pharmacological toolbox, just as retrograde transmission with Cannabinoids was unknown of until 5 years ago, but, once discovered, explained pretty much every "creepy" effect of Cannabis (perhaps creepy is the wrong word as it is assigned from my subjective interpretation of such effects...some people may find depersonalization, time dilation, and novelty of the well-known to be fun...it is rather subjective territory).

 

This link:

http://www.sagewisdom.org/faq.html

is very useful and I am glad I found it. What the author describes as "dream time" and his comparison to the transition between waking and sleeping, as well as the repeated mention of experiences seemingly REAL occurring with the eyes closed, nearly satisfies my curiosity and convinces me that these effects I describe are mediated by Kappa-Opioid-Receptor agonism by Nor-Buprenorphine.

Also interesting is to read the trip report included in the FAQ I linked to. He/she specifically mentions seeing an "altered" by seemingly real version of the scene around them WITH the eyes CLOSED. Very interesting indeed.

 

That trip report suggests something different than what you are tho, although I could see how similar processes could be in play. But that salvia report suggests the individual saw a completely different location than the one they are physically in.

 

But when he/she starts the description, he/she mentions that with their eyes closed, they looked out at the ocean and on the beach that they were physically at. Also, Salvia's chemical is a far more potent kappa agonist than any pharmaceutical opioid is going to be, so it makes sense that the effects would be taken to a whole new plateau.

And perhaps I am not describing MY experience well enough. It truly is a bizarre and other-worldly experience and no amount of words could accurately pin it down. In addition to the visual effect I described, there is a time-distortion element at play, and a strange emotional element which is a mix between contentment (certainly not full-out euphoria though) and extreme fear and aversion to moving. Yes. That sounds odd but is true.

You feel as though you SHOULD not physically move or get up. I don't know how to put it verbally honestly, but it is bizarre and not unpleasant in the normal sense of a fear.

 

Oh yes I see what you are talking about about halfway through the trip. She very well could have opened her eyes for a brief moment without being aware of it, many people on Salvia Divinorum can't tell whether their eyes are open or closed. I've trip sat probably about 10-15 trips, many people will go in planning to close their eyes but then sort of jolt them open sometime during the trip.

 

All I can say today, after re-reading my posts from last night, is:

Damn. Amphetamine is some powerful shit!

I was talking about some pretty far out stuff for sure. But all of it is true! I read some more Salvia trip reports off of Erowid.org after I was done posting on HipForums last night, and I found a good number of them with similar things to my story.

I honestly feel as though, because of the abstract nature of the experience AND the incredible amount of speed in my system last night, that I may have presented these "weird nods" in a less than optimal manner haha.

But I would still like to see if any other opioid users have experienced anything like this.

 

Haha I always say that. I guess that makes us both whores :willy_nilly:

I don't know why I put that smiley...I just like it a lot lol

 

just 4 mgs of subs, the doc moved my app. back 2 days wonder what i should tell him on how i made it 2 extra days, i don,t want him to lower my dose yet, im, at 8 mgs a day.

 

2 more mgs an hour ago need to go do calucking around the tub we,ll see how this one goes, anyone know how to smooth it nice?

 

Fill a glass with water and afte you lay your bead dip your finger in the water and run it down it. Then wipe off the excess from your finger and repeat.

 

ahh it,s friday 8mgs of subs and some beers, and i fell off the wagon a little and did some coke. no herion though.

 

everyone says no herion...