Obama, the agent of transformation in an age of revolution

Actually it's not the illegals aliens working here in the states at fault...it's the employers...why do we always ignore that. If there were no jobs available to them they would be looking for working in Mexico...why aren't they? Ask yourself that, then ask the candidates.

Ask these senators what they know of the SPP, and how much input they have had. And don't accept ignorance as an answer. They are all three senators, they have all three stood by while policies conerning commerce have been made by big business. Our congress is supposed to have oversight of trade arrangements. Why do they continually say they have no knowledge. They have watched while corporate connections have been appointed to policy making boards. It's time to hold all three accountable. Are they too busy running for an office of which they all seem to have little knowledge. None of them seem to value the constitution or their consituents.

Why are we focussing more on what their religious pastors's may be saying, when how many times have they actually attended those churches, but they have all been elected and charged with upholding our consitutional rights, and paid for that job...which includes being responsible for the enactment of trade deals and appointments.

 

anyone who cannot cause trouble is potentially a good choice

emma not born in u$ though and that would be against the law

we are a nation of laws

 

"gardener"-Good point.Anyone and EVERYONE who employs an illegal alien should get thrown in jail for a long time.--But none of these "candidates" has even mentioned actions that would punish employers.

 

Yes, too many!

Poor old Emma. They bumped her off and now she can't be president. Maybe she could be a senator from Illinois? New York? Arizona?

I notice some of the posts are against illegal immigration. I'm not so sure. Why not legalize it? Less laws. Very few of the illegals are dangerous. Just like people here already. Actually I don't care and I don't know what to believe. I need a mild sedative right now.

 

mild [or strong] sedatives are always helpful

the growth-oriented economists need sedatives as well

'illegal immigration' is such a strange phrase

you are not allowed to walk on this part of the earth

the earth that is your mother

[the sedatives are cheaper on the other part of the earth, we should all go back]

making no sense this morning, i need a mild stimulant

 

We're almost there, folks.

Now, if we can just make it another six months without the bushies fucking things up too badly by starting a war in Iran or some other stupidity, we might have a shot at progress...

 

The argument against illegal immigration is that the immigrants are in a position to take resources from the rest of us once they cross the boarder, but I'd be willing to wager that we expend far more resources in an effort to keep them out than if we let well enough alone.

Good thing we built that border fence to keep 'em out, eh? 'Course that's unless you're one of bush's buddies, and the border's in your back yard...

 

After knowing what has happened in the past few weeks havn't you any second thoughts about Obama? This guy isn't anything new except for having an African father who deserted the family. He rants against insiders and has a man heading his v-pres. selection committee who is the ultimate insider and who received and gave questionable deals as head of Fannie Mae. He attacked Mrs. Clinton something unmercifully and then pulled back to pretend he didn't do anything bad. Wouldn't it be ironic if six months after he is sworn in you would be writing about him as you do Bush. I take it you favor Iran getting a nuclear bomb. I may have to rejoin my hippie tribe in Colorado, except I don't think they are there anymore. George are you there? (Redturd speaking).

 

So you'd rather continue the republican legacy of preying on the American people, while rewarding corruption, lawlessness, and disparity? With a president whose "family values" include trading in his disabled wife, who waited for him while he was a POW, for a younger, wealthier model? While attacking Iran with a military that is depleted to begin with, only to have the cost of oil skyrocket beyond control, yet another reason for the muslim world to induct more terrorists--but hey, the world will be a safer place, right?

And if they do it right, maybe there will be a military coup, and we won't have to worry about Obama running for President...

If that happens, joining a hippie tribe away from "civilization" will be an attractive option.

 

Mellow Yellow. What's this shit about civilization? We were civilized. The rest of the world wasn't. BTW I don't intend to vote for any of the shit heels. Haven't for years. Maybe I will move to the "New England woods!" No, I'd rather be in Philadelphia. Ha. Ha.

BTW do you vote for the New England democrap party fascists?

 

Note that I put the word "civilization" in quotes, the concept being absurd in this context to begin with. Civilization and politics don't mix.

Man, I am THE New England democrat fascist Master, 'got the bumper sticker to prove it, lol. No worries though, I'm not dangerous, so long as I'm not having a bad day or operating heavy machinery. Besides, you might not totally hate it here if you gave it a shot, lotsa protected open spaces with woods and rivers, good outdoor grown, music festivals, accountability in local government.

But don't take me as a representative of New England, I'm just some random asshole who happens to live here, an eccentric one at that. I could've just as easily represented many other parts of the world I've lived in.

Doesn't seem all that different from what Mrs Clinton did to him, as far as I'm concerned, he's just responding in kind, it's self defense.

Shiat, what's with the guilt-by-association nonsense? Typical witch hunt smear tactics, yet I still haven't seen any evidence that Obama knew about it when he hired Johnson.

Contrast that with your typical republican agenda, where the cronyism and corruption is so blatantly obvious that they might as well hit us in the head with a two by four, but hey, at least they're up-front and honest about their dishonesty, right?

I don't expect Obama to eliminate cronyism and corruption from government, I don't think it can be done, no one has that much control, but I think it'll be a step in the right direction.

'Course if you're happy with things as they are, or you don't care about the idea of McCain continuing the repiglican legacy of selling us out for the next four to eight years, by all means vote for him, or don't vote at all.

 

Here's something y'all Obama-haters might appreciate:

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/4766

This guy claims he and Obama took cocaine together and had gay sex back in 1999. Too bad he failed a polygraph test, so the smear-mongers will need to keep digging.

 

i agree with you, of all the times i've been on these forums. i have known pepik to troll more than he does anything else. bear in mind that this is not an attack of any sort. just an observation.

 

obama would have to answer to the same exact people everyone else does. the same people who look for every excuse to wage war. the same people who run the big banks and fortune 500 companies that our government has allowed to become less regulated over time. the same people who have made an overall mess of things. what's so hard to understand about that?

 

Exactly, which is why I think more in terms of minimizing or repairing the damage done, rather than expecting some sort of utopia to emerge.

I'm sure Obama-bashers will also point fingers at his appointment of Messina, but then you look at the alternative, and it's frightening.

With more-of-the-same McCain, we get foreclosure Phil Gramm as a potential Treasury secretary, the scumbag who masterminded the anti-regulation legislation that caused the subprime meltdown. Talk about your typical republican policy of fox guarding the hen house.

I don't expect Obama to be a miracle-worker, but I expect an improvement, I mean, things can't get any worse...or can they?...

 

of course they can, nothing will change until you remove the factor of big money out of politics. but good luck with that.

 

I've made up my mind.

I predict an Obama victory. I think he'll win. He just gave up public financing because he can raise much more on his own and spend it in virtually any way he wants. He's going to beat McCain at least 3-1 on money. He's ahead in the polls, and I think it'll keep inching higher as the election gets closer.

Obama. '08.

 

Mellow Yellow



You. {Doesn't seem all that different from what Mrs Clinton did to him, as far as I'm concerned, he's just responding in kind, it's self defense.}

Could you be specific about what Mrs. Clinton did to him?



You. {Shiat, what's with the guilt-by-association nonsense? Typical witch hunt smear tactics, yet I still haven't seen any evidence that Obama knew about it when he hired Johnson.}

Well you could argue he appoints people to important jobs, i.e., choosing the next vice-president, that he knows nothing about, or you could be intelligent and admit they know these people, what their jobs are/were. If he didn't know this man's previous position he is dumb, which I doubt.

You. {Contrast that with your typical republican agenda.}

Do you assume I am a Republican or Democrat. Don't. I am not.


You. {I don't expect Obama to eliminate cronyism and corruption from government.}

Well, at least you won't be disappointed with his idea of "change you can believe in!" in this regard. However, in this case it is "no change, you can believe it!"

You. {'Course if you're happy with things as they are, or you don't care about the idea of McCain continuing the repiglican legacy of selling us out for the next four to eight years, by all means vote for him, or don't vote at all.[/quote]}

I won't vote. I haven't for a long time. If everyone refrained, they'd get the message.

Please, try to curb your fascism by not explaining that by not voting you really are voting. You see, I know that. Maybe, they will get the message if enough people don't vote. This "if you" argument is reminiscent of the old fascist argument that "if you aren't with us, you are against us." Of course, I am against the Democrats, Republicans, Conservatives, Liberals, etc., etc.

 

Somehow, I missed this when it was first posted. The last few months has certainly proved Gardener right. I hope anyone who didn't read it the first time, like me, reads it now.

 

Who are "they"?

You have a point, by not voting you're expressing an opinion, and that's cool, but what do you hope to achieve? ...or not achieve?

Don't misunderstand me, I'm with you in being against it, but I'm looking at it from a stop-loss perspective.

If McCain gets in office, we're really fucked. Welcome to off-shore drilling, preemptive military strikes, and a continuance of the hollowing out of the middle class by corporate predators who have free reign over the economy. When Obama gets in there, we're still fucked, but maybe not so hard.

I used to be an idealist like yourself, good for you, don't settle like I did. Now I'm looking more big picture pragmatic, and yeah, I'm compromising, working with what I've got, but then I'm not walking away from it either.

I noticed you're entertaining the thought of moving, Colorado or New England (oh my)? Texas is a cool place, though I'm not a big fan of some of the politicians that come from there, and there aren't enough mountains, rivers, and trees...