North Korea successfully tests Nuke

p.s. maximus


hiroshima was about 13 kiloton and nagasaki was about 22 kilotons....

 

No, only among u.s. neoconservative pundits and media.

There was a nuke test, the only real questions are how big it was, how many more N.Korea has and how many more tests N.Korea will conduct...

Chances are the test that just happened was smaller than intended, but was also supposed to be relatively small anyway, conserve what material they have for actual weapons.

And the same debate over the size of explosion took place when india tested as well...

 

Except it still hasn't been proven that they are indeed pursuing nuclear weapons technology. they haven't admitted to it and the west hasn't been able to prove it. There is also speculation that Saudi Arabia is pursuing nuclear weapons tech, but you don't see us gunning for them, do ya....

 

it's been known to happen...

 

Which is why action must be taken now, to prevent an annoucment such as N.K. had.

Kind of a backwards approach don't you think? Wait until a weapon is developed and an attack is launched before action is taken? You take the offensive in these positions, not the defensive. BTW, not that N.K. or Iran have ICBM's, but either way NORAD would not be able to defend the world from an airborn nuke.

You are right, Iran publicly admits the value of terrorism. Iran and terrorism is no secret my friend, they are the pioneers.

Really an irrelevant point of discussion, but again, Israel is an "unconfirmed" nuclear state. Now figures taken from the estimated highest output of Israels nuclear reactor, would put the quantity in a range of about 250 and 500 weapons. Nobody knows Israels true capacity but Israel.

Again the negative aspects of N.K. becomming a nuclear state and the even more negative future aspects of Iran becomming nuclear.

What point are you trying to get across exactly? That the US should worry about Iran at the moment a missile is fired at them. Or are you trying to say that the destruction caused by a nuclear weapon is overrated?

 

Correct, but for more than a decade Iran has been trying to procure materials through secret and criminal channels. Not evidence of a country trying to build a "peaceful nuclear power program". Some of these materials are significant in their use in nuclear weapons. Coupled with economic reasons, it is a very safe assumption that Iran is seeking a nuclear weapon.

 

Indeed, there is no proof.

There is also no proof that bush did 911 either.

its all a question of speculation and odds of probability.
I'm having trouble giving Iran the benefit of the doubt.

 

I think what is being lost in this debate is the terrible life

of the residents of North Korea. Compared to South Korea,
life in the North is true feudal slavery.

Could there be a less legit goverment anywhere on earth ?

 

Maybe, but then you have to ask, what actions against Iran are reasonable when all you have is an assumption?

 

Oh boy, none of these decisions are easy. Personally I don't believe that military options should be more than a plan at this point. They shouldn't be considered but the absolute last option, and as you mentioned, without rock solid evidence, taking drastic military action would be a very very serious decision. An air assault would be the obvious move, and tactical nuclear weapons would be close to the only weapon that could penetrate these fortified facilities. Politically, attacking a country with nuclear weapons to prevent them from obtaining nuclear weapons, I don't think is an area any leader wants to step.

The problem lies with diplomacy being uneffective. Which is what we are currently experiencing. After years of failed talks we are no farther forward than we were at the beginning. Talks? Sanctions? International pressure? Would this affect the top levels of government?

I really do not have a solid answer for this one. Threats of military action are being used as a political tool at the moment. Underlying talks include supportign resistance groups to overthrow the regime and install a "western friendly" government that would be willing to give up arms or completely disclose the weapons program. We all know how well installing "western friendly" governments works. Your guess is as good as mine my friend. The only thing that I can tell you is that the world is in a tough spot and I don't think any route is going to turn out in the favor of a peaceful society.

 

Good points.

Keep in mind that an air assault on Iran without ground troops would be completely ineffective (says Wesley Clark) and any assault on Iran(even sanctions) is going to mobilize a increased amount of terrorism and would be suicide to U.S. troops stationed in Iraq. Even in "moderate" muslim nations where the heads of state are barely keeping their populace in check (egypt comes to mind) there would be a danger of provoking domestic instability...

 

What action, if any, do you think should be taken? I am genuinely interested. For the most part I do not believe there is a good or bad answer, because I have a hard time envisioning a good outcome in this situation.

 

I don't believe there is one cure all either.

Maybe a combination of phased withdrawl of U.S. troops from Iraq, Israel and the west reaching out to the Muslim world with generosity and understanding despite continuing terrorist outrages that would cry out for revenge,some kind of diplomatic strategy that would would seek to reduce (not escalate) tensions with Muslims(addresses the greviences that are actually legit), Reducing western (especcially U.S.) dependence on Middle Eastern Oil, Some kind of permenant resolution of the Israeli-Palestenian conflict while lengthy would certainly help, and maybe an increase in the amount of economic/political/commercial bonds with Syria/Lebanon/Iran...

Making efforts to bring them into the fold, instead continued strategies aimed at isolation and economic ruin which only serve to make these nation more desperate and their populace more willing to go along with their leader's Anti-U.S. positions.

Just a thought.

As far as N.Korea is concerned, i have no fucking idea....

 

I don't like to argue pointlessly so I'll just say this.

I trust Iran more than I do the States.

North Korea, is run by an undeserving megalomaniac who sees the U.N. as most do, neautral. Unwilling to stop him.

Conspiracies are just that, unproven beliefs.