New Souvenirs To Pick Up

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my "sweeping generalizations" are presented as generalizations. If you think I am claiming that EVERY dutch person falls under this train of thought then perhaps you misenterpreted my post. I do not doubt that you know many dutch people who show no trace of this nature, in fact I KNOW PLENTY who do not. My family is dutch, my neighbors are dutch, and i've been to the netherlands a handfull of times. But I also know PLENTY who do exhibit this characteristic......it would be quite dumb of me to claim that the dutch do not have any tolerance for other cultures. After all how many times have I posted that Amsterdam represents more nations then any other city in the world? I was not speaking about all dutch people, I was using an obvious generalization that assigned a quality to a good portion of the dutch population. It was not intended to be racist. In no way shape or form.

If you don't get the same feeling I do, then perhaps your exposure to the spectrum of dutch culture is smaller? I know PLENTY of dutch people on both sides of this fence. The fact that you claim not to know anybody exhibiting this quality astonishes me. But again, you not doubting the possibility shows your openmindedness! I apologize if my "sweeping generalizations" came off as anything besides just that. In rereading my post I can see that I definately didn't clarify my scope well enough. However I assure you that within the scope I intend to target my observations are QUITE ACCURATE. D- for presentation

Fortunately we both acknowledge that dutch citizens exist which support and disprove my statement. Now that I have clarified my scope and showed it to be much less then the original impression I gave you we should be able to see that we are on the same page. I was just shouting my point for no good reason other than my displeasure with those dutch who do exhibit this mentality.

Thank you so much for help with the translation and again I didn't mean to offend with my abstract, conceptual, idealistic, generalizing way of looking and worrying about the big picture we call life. It would be more politically correct to keep my mind stripped down to a more deontological level. But then again I hate politics and definately never win popularity contests

It just comes with the territory that is my mind and my focus. Rather then not offend or risk overlooking the individual, I tend to focus my efforts on highlighting mentalities that effect GROUPS OF PEOPLE. Sociological Cultural Group behavior is a major factor in the overall mentality of the individual members of that group. So at the risk of being called a racist again I will continue to study , identify, and bring to light such things because it is the utilitarian thing to do.

 

Hey all. Being the one who wrote the original message (quoted in the first post by Shiny J), it's quite amusing to see how this got you guys to comment on the Dutch mentality, culture, etc. with such vigor!

First of all, Shiny J asked me to translate the post on NieuwNieuws.nl. It says indeed the sign is for sale, but more interestingly: it's the city council selling them! (My first thought was: ah, how typical for the Dutch, stealing signs like that and selling them for nice profits... but more about that later.) Of course, it being a city council, they can't make a profit out of it, so they have to donate the gains to charity.

Here's a page on the official sub-council's website about the deal.

If you want the sign, send a mail to gj.stolk@movement.nl. Limited availability. It costs 90 euro, about 60 pound sterling. (I don't know if they ship abroad though!)

Secondly, although lots of what's been said in this forum absolutely is true, or at least touches the truth, there's a small but important thing I'd like to point out to you. Amsterdam does not represent the Netherlands, nor do the Amsterdam locals represent the Dutch. (And vice versa, of course.) Whatever claims you make, please bear this in mind.

Basically, as is probably the case in any big city, the people of Amsterdam look down on the rest of the Dutch. They have a very arrogant, superior air to everything and everyone from "the province", as we like to call it. (Yes, we. I'm born and raised Dutch and have lived in Amsterdam for almost 10 years now. I've seen both sides of this story.) Equally, the rest of the Dutch don't always think very positive about the bunch of weirdos living in Amsterdam.

On a related note, in respons to the post by Newport66 about being treated rude: I guess this superior air also tends to extend to visitors to our city.

Apparently, there's a couple of centuries of history to explain why the Dutch-Amsterdam situation is the way it is. But alas, I wasn't much paying attention during those history lessons due to the fact that I usually attended these classes in a state of expanded conciousness, having just smoked lots of weed on the streets and stuff.

What CAN be said about most Dutch, both from inside and outside Amsterdam, is that they are opportunists in every way possible. (Hence my initial reaction reading the post on NieuwNieuws.nl.) Our opinions and actions are usually explainable from a (mainly economic) self-enriching motivation. We don't have too many ideals I'm afraid. (Somebody mentioned the Dutch started slave trade. A good example although it's, of course, complete bullocks. At most, we restarted it.)

Oh, for the record: above goes for a lot of Dutch and Amsterdam people, not all. I wouldn't want to generalize of course... ;-)

Right, a lot of bla bla. Hopefully something usefull for someone.

 

Thanks for the follow up and the help with the translation Bas. Really nice to hear a local perspective on the development. I'll admit my "vigor" is what inspired shiny and the others to tell me to "take it down a notch" which is fine

 

This bloody forum drives me mad; intelligent people have a rational debate with no flaming or name calling - what's happened to the internet?

Firstly Koopa, you may consider that I have all but called you a racist by my remarks and, well I guess I basically did based purely on the simplistic terms I boiled your comments down to. I appreciate that you've got qualification for your comments but in my own idealistic world I thought they were too stereotypical. I recall we both joined this forum before last years Queens Day and from our conversations back then I have no reason at all to believe that you are racist. In the same way that you thought the sign itself to be I thought your remarks were and I just wanted to highlight that - maybe we're both too sensitive!! I feel I have caused offence however so I would like to apologise for that.

Secondly, I do understand your point. I just thought your reaction was disproportionate to the incident that's all. You may well be right that my exposure to Dutch culture is thinner than yours because I've never been outside the Dam on my visits to Holland. I appreciate therefore that I may have a Dam view of the Dutch but when mein host is generally Bas (who posted earlier), I would suggest I'm not completely ignorant of the people. But frankly, I think (and whisper this) they're just people, with their own social problems and issues - which is no different from any other society but I accept that you've obviously got more of an vested interest in the the Dutch society than I have. I've also learned that you're more passionate about it than I am.

And then there's this.

I just thought the story was funny and it would be a laugh to laugh at it.

I hope to see you this Queens Day, and will make all the more effort having missed you at the last one. That way we can put the world to rights face to face....

 

shiny J you rock...........

I openly admit I am way too sensitive AND moody! The moodyness explains the disproportionateness of my reactions ==== I was going to type "explains how disproportionate my reactions can be" but damn i love inventing words }

What we have in common besides being overly sensitive is a love of ideals, amsterdam, the dutch, herb, knowledge, belief, and people in general! We are strong minded individuals who defend our beliefs while being open minded and listening to others!

Queensday 06 will be a blast and I'm glad I will get to meet you finally!