My ignorant christain buddy

No such thing as a rational argument.. only a rational discussion. Even rational discussions are irrational. Everything's irrational.
Now I've said rational so many times in my head it doesn't even sound like a word. Fuck the irrationality of seemingly rational words.

 

Kind of surprised a hardcore Christian (or any mainstream religious person) would be considering taken an hallucinogen.

Could be that, secretly, he wants to take a peak behind the curtain.

I would definitely be hesitant to let him take a trip like this on his own. I would watch out for his experience turning into an encounter with "the devil". If he has (as many religious people do) "the devil is out to snare me" running around somewhere in his mind things could get sketchy.

I wouldn't encourage him, but if he's made up his mind on his own I'd definitely want to be there with him. He's definitely going to need a designated thinker.

 

Let him make the decision. Tell him to do a some research on its effects, and let him choose whether he wants the experience or not. Just make sure that his "research" isn't bullshit trip reports, and that it's legit information. Erowid would be a good start.

Shrooms and Christianity aren't exclusive. I have had some very enlightening spiritual awakenings while on both shrooms and acid. And I feel closer to God because of it.

 

The damage was already done...... the best and brightest stem cell researchers fled the US during the Bush years after the ban on federal funding on Stem cell research. Many went to China where they were giving all the funding they wanted and with a 5 year headstart over the US they made China the leading country in stem cell research breakthroughs.

We allowed the religious nuts to cripple the US in a emerging research field

 

Wether it allowed him to form his own ideas as they relate to his faith, or it turned his faith around, I think a properly prepared trip would help him.

I would make sure to NOT present it as a "faith buster" to him. It is that for some people, and it's profoundly religious for others, but if it does in deed shatter faith, it can be a very positive thing if it'd done with supporting friends ready to help him continue growing and becomming a better person, with or witheut faith. But if you take the attitude that it would break him, instead of show him how beautiful life is, of course he'll have a very bad time and a depressed shitty life afterwards.

 

I think this is a very poor way of looking at it.

There is nothing in chirisianity that prohibits the use of psychedelics. Many christians see them as psychedelic (god-manfiesting, that is) in a christian way.

People from all spiritual walks of life can have similar bad trips, from entity contact type things to paranoia. It's how you get past it that counts. Thinking of him as inferior and unable to handle his shit will only hurt him. He must be prepared, and then allowed to, with any guidence he needs, handle his own shit.

I would encourage him, as I would encourage almost anyone to take psychedelics, in the right set/setting. The point is to teach him to be his own thinker, not baby him and keep him from it.

 

Isn't it a bit unfair to group all religious people together? As if all religious people of all faiths automatically take a particular absolutist position on every issue?
Seems a bit of a dichotomy to me.

A discussion of how/when/if to turn someone on for their first time is a good one but I don't get where OP is coming from. "Should I do it or not?" but going on and on about why he shouldn't. I'm leaning towards the latter because I can see the attitudes portrayed in this thread as being a bad set, possibly laying a major judgement scene on said first time mushroom tripper.

While he might be fine with someone else, the whole vibe with OP is apt to be laced with contempt and negativity towards religious beliefs and THAT is more of a concern than letting a christian discover himself and his beliefs and perspectives on his own, unfettered by outside condemnation.

I feel most people of sound mind and body should have an experience at least once. It may deepen his beliefs, shatter them, or most likely somewhere in between. OP could very well be the worst person to share it with him though. If you can't go into it open minded with respect and tolerance for him as a human being, then you shouldn't be babysitting his first trip.

 

+1

To the OP;vIf you're as negative about his faith and beleifs in person as you are behind his back, wouldn't be surprised if you helped bring on a bad trip. I know I wouldn't want you as my sitter if I were him, given what you've said.

Help him, be a friend.

 

As an ex-Christain who's experimented with psycedelics, it seems like a very practical way of looking at it to me.

OK, tell you what: go to any Christian church social or get-together and ask the people there if anybody wants to trip on shrooms. Be sure to let me know how that turns out.

Rastas, maybe. Can't think of many mainstream Christians that I know who wouldn't tell you that any and all hallucinagens are from the devil.

My point is that someone who's been raised to believe that the world is under the control of an evil entity who's out to trap as many souls as possible is going to be a little extra susceptible to something like this.

Who said "inferior"?

Who said "unable to handle his shit"?

That's all I'm saying.

Who said "keep him from it"?

You seem to be trying to have an argument with someone who isn't actually here.

 

I replied to the implications of your post, and of OP's.


You did it again at the start of that post. You're an ex-christian who's used psychedelics, and you think that it's more "practical" to leave him to a life of drone-like slavery to a book, because he might think the devil's out to get him. A very poor way of looking at it.

Voyage, I can't see any argument with that, I guess shulgin lied to me..... maybe there's something in greek that would allow that to imply that it's the mental manifestation of god? I dunno. All I know is that I'm pretty sure I've read shulgin translate it as god-manifesting, in the intro to the shulgin index.

 

Do me a favor: next time try replying to the actual words. That way we're more likely to have an intelligent discussion.

Nope. Once again you're reading all kinds of things I didn't say, imply, or intend into my posts.

Let me know if you want to have a discussion about anything I've actually said and I'll be happy to respond. If not, and since you're already holding up both ends of this conversation by yourself, I'll sit this one out (wouldn't want to interrupt).

Oh, and please don't read any of the above as "I think we should all put kittens in the microwave and set it on high". If that's what I meant to say, that's what I would have said.

 

Okay,

what exactly is not practical? Why is it not practical? Why should it matter if it's not practical?

How does the fact that he could have devil-filled delusions have ANYTHING to do with this, if you're not saying it as a warning against giving this individual psychedelics?

What does being christian have to do with this? I've known many christians to take psychedelics, and I belive there is literature that describes studies on priests and the like, with overwhelmingly positive results to LSD, rating it as very compatable with christianity and provoking VERY intense spiritual experiences. Some people don't want to, this guy does, so being christian, to him, obviously does not make him see mushrooms in a negative light.

Next time try using actual words that mean something, without being read into-because without the implications, what you said means NOTHING and has NOTHING to do with this. You have one useful statement, which is that you've used psychederics and are an ex-christian.... but you don't expand on that in any sort of useful way. Everything you said was vague and useless, and generally leaned towards not helping the guy with psychedelics because it could prove impractical. As far as practicality goes, you offered no practical advice.

Elietist and lazy to the point that you might as well be a prohibitionist, if your words are taken at face-value. Some kinds of elietist are okay, not your kind, as I'm understanding it.

That's how I read it, anyways.

 

This is something that I see from a lot of Athiests....opinions about a vast and diverse group/groups of people based entirely on "mainstream" Christianity. While a lot of the time denouncing anything else that's considered "mainstream." And by mainstream christianity I'm assuming youre referring to bible thumping, judgemental, hypocritical, extreme fundamentalists.

Rastas, Native Americans, pagans, wiccans, Jews, Buddists, have people all over who blend their beliefs with Christianity. Many people are Christian Deists, whether they've heard the term or not. And there's people in all of those possible categories and more who use mind altering drugs to bring them closer to God. This world is far more diverse than many like to believe.

I was raised in a Luthern Church. Psychedelics have played a big role in changing my views to more of a Christian Deist point of view, and like I said before, I feel closer to God today than I ever have in any Church. Maybe OPs friend will have a similar reaction. Maybe not. But I agree that his first experience maybe better off with someone with more of an open mind and a better understanding of Religon outside of the extreme.

 

very good post thank you

 

i'm not neg towards his beliefs i'm more wary towards his belief mixed with psychedelics.....

 

Saying his entire life is based on lies, and that you know that it is 'fact' it's lies, isn't being negative towards his beliefs?

Honestly, if thats you being positive, you're the biggest downer I've ever had the chance to converse with...

 

I'm a Christian, and I strongly believe in the power of cannabis and psychedelics. Getting really fed up with people thinking faith in Jesus and psychedelic use have to be exclusive.

Cannabis is in the Bible. It was used as part of the holy anointing oil, and as a burnt offering to God. This was before "kanneh-bosm" was mistranslated to "calamus" and "aromatic cane".

And "manna" are magic mushrooms. The description matches perfectly (white round things, prepared over cow dung, breeds worms if left out for too long, melts in the sun). There's even Christian relics that depict mushrooms.

Come down off your throne, dude. If you can't respect his beliefs and his current position in life while he's tripping, then forget about it. Maybe you're not the guy meant to introduce him to shrooms.

And yeah, I agree with whoever above said that the guy should be allowed to do his own research. If he's currently at the point where he's hesitating taking them, then I say it's not a good idea for him to trip yet. Especially not at 4 grams. Sites like MAPS and Erowid are full of valuable information. That way he's more sure of what he's doing. One of the most important things that won me over to cannabis and psychedelics was that, after looking at the research, I wasn't actually harming my body by using them. And I'm greatly attracted by spiritual and creative use.

Heck, there's several documentaries on YouTube as well. Like "LSD: The Beyond Within". And "The Union: The Business Behind Getting High" is a really good one for cannabis.

So personally I feel like he shouldn't trip yet, but not because of any of the reasons you put up. He needs to get educated first.

 

dude when im saying his life is based on lies i mean his values that his parents raised him on the boundaries that have been implanted in his mind seeing the world through those boundaries except he has alot more boundaries than the average person and if you were to spend 1 day with him you'll understand what i'm talking about i honestly hated to make this thread, but i wanted other opinions on my question, because i would feel terrible if i did anything that contributed to hurt him in any way. the fact part i agree with you its not fact, but imo my apologies for that we wall misspeak. i never once said i was being pos towards his beliefs and stop saying neg shyt towards me really no need for that im just trying to do the right thing.

i've never met a christian psychedelic user both in real life and internet i thought there had to be a connection and i was just worried thats it. If he was hypothetically to resign from christianity his family life would be terrible imagine everytime you see your parents it had to do with christianity like going to church, bible study etc i think anyone would get fed up with that and his moms heart would literally break if she found out he wasn't christian in his family god comes before everything... i just dont wanna risk anything with him he's happy right now everything is great for him ignorance is bliss....its not time for him to try he's not even crazy about trying them its something he doesn't even care about, but would try if he could, so i'm just not gonna let him try my stuff thats it if he gets him n his own he wont hear a word from me about dont do it i'd just let him do his thing.

 

read my previous post and ya i am the wrong guy to introduce him for sure i'd worry to much about him if he ended up tripping

 

both his parents are one step away from being priests