Mushroom Speaking

why don't the mushrooms speak the language of the mind? not actual words, but a transfer of thoughts. i don't think the spirits left, i think we just forgot how to listen. there are those who still remember, youll probably never hear of them though, there too busy being one with nature to come and tell you how much they are one with the nature. i believe at one point we were in more touch with the divine because we were still learning from the divine, like parents they took care of us and showed us how to live, but were grown up now, we must get by on our own, without there help, we bit the apple.

 

I agree except instead of planned I would use the word exists, as in, this universe is perfect, down to the most seemingly insignificant detail. I remember a line from Waking Life, (very) paraphrased "I subscribe to the idea that this imperfect existence, this very moment here, and now, is more perfect than we can imagine perfect to be".

Relayer I get what you're saying. I guess that in itself is a testament to the power of psychedelics; 2 months ago I would have basically replied the same way SS has.

Now I understand we are talking about the same thing; it's just language, and it's just talking, and everyone does it in a different way, but as long as nothing important is lost in translation, we can speak about the same thing in so many different ways; just look at this thread for example

The mushroom spirit isn't blind to our world, it may change what it tells us based on what we need to hear. Sometimes a child really does need spanking.

 

Because I have seen you around for a while now, and that post seemed totally unlike you... disappointing even.
Made me think something has happened to you recently, I was just expressing my sympathy.

EDIT: I hope eberything is ok, and if ya need someone to talk you, there many here with open arms

 

man I had my mind RAPED about an hour ago (in a positive way)

I know a little more now.

I ENTIRELY retract my post from before. And apologize (I did kinda before)

_

Have faith, that was not me speaking as I am -NOW-

 

It's so funny that I said what I did, then later tonight I was entirely convinced otherwise... I had a very enlightening conversation with my sister's fiancee earlier

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain how the question's I've put forth have merit due to an increase in openness and general experience exposure Writer, I appreciate your honesty.
This last sentence is more or less where I stand on the topic, I (at least in this moment) believe that there most definitley is a scattered identity of Spirit (or whatever was on the other sing of the Holy Morning lol, I really dislike the term 'Spirit' so bare with me here) broken down into fragments of Itself and reflected from the very fabric, at heart, of space itself. This would give man the perception that there are multiple spirits, wether elemental, emotional, luck productive or any other typical 'superstitious' attributions applied to the misunderstood mechanics of Mother Nature in order for man to be guided and healed. And we may easily say that these spirits are illusory in essence, a product of either wishful thinking, proclaimed knowledge authority, or irrational fears of the unknown or unexplored, but at the same time I am of the opinion that all going ons, beings and happenings, all of our manifested phsycial/mental universe is that of an illusory nature.
So for someone to offer me a chemical in a pill to heal my headache, and another to offer the healing hands-on touch of deeksha to heal my mental ailments, would not cause me to observe both medications with any divisive opinions, other than of course that one is visible to my sober naked eye and the other invisible, in fact probably on an entire different page in the book.
We could get into that another time though, because Im going to far into what you and a few other posters in this thread already have realize for yourselves.
"whatever you see in existence, both moving and unmoving, is only the combination of the field of activities and the knower of the field."
- Bhagavad Gita, Chapter VIII, v. 27

The reason I bring this question up, is because all of the translated reports I've either read or viewd in which different shamans are interviewd, they all claim that our society can not benefit from the healing powers of the tryptamines. Not exactly that we are all abusing the plants, though many (if not most) of us are, but rather that we can not understand the language the spirits speak, therefor can not receive guidance/healing fully but only in introspective and extrospective puzzle peices, and are more or less causing too much internal friction because we cling to concepts of time and space, mortality and immortality, acheiving kingdoms later rather than now, and so on.
Of course plenty of us have been able to snap out of the spell our society deems fit to place us under, and have awoken into a very different vibrant trance, but the majority of us have not and we are for the most part forced to remain obediant to this society, because we enjoy the shamans medicine and the spiritual approach, but we are not so readily willing to give up what we have been born into as a birthright, namely the material comforts and levels of personality developed through schooling and then working.
So in a way, no matter how devoted we are to psychedelics and the whole mind boggling mess of potential revelations incurred as a result, it is still sadly in essence a vacation from sobriety and our societys living standards and expectations as a whole. Again not all of us are guilty as charged, but for most of us, the psychedelic experience is a fun way to distort our average miserable experience into something enjoyable, but when the effects wear off and we immerse ourselves back into our society, many of us seem to either ignore the more profound moments on our psychedelic journey or have somehow blocked the memory out. And I do believe that pscilocybin does actually prevent us from being able to recall the peak moments, but LSD rings bright and clear for me as the moments in memory took place.
Anyway, I think it is this approach, that no matter how far we go with psychedelics, we can not leave what we have developed, because we are contributing the to loss of our material comfort as well as to the race our populous is and has been running on for quite some time now.
But of course, when you weigh the two, much more negativity has resulted from our society and I dont think that should be off balanced, so it is my opinion that the perceived 'spirits' are in fact still here, can not, in fact, leave as long as at least one person will attemp to acknolwedge them, but that when we are blessed with the chance to have total communion with them, they hurt us, and scar us deeply.
I know that my only real solid encounter with an immediatley present fragmented localization of spirit or divinity was painful in a way that is ineffable, that actually trascends even my most beautiful unspeakable peaks, and I think that is saying a lot for the negative but in no way is that an exaggeration. I am being totally honest when I say that my bad trips far out number my good, regardless of my continually renewed interest, and this moment felt like walking into the cave of a dragon which has been asleep for many years.
I had no vision of a presence, it didnt speak, and I had no way of knowing I was communicating with it other than the way I felt at that moment. It was like being in front of the Sun, I couldnt look up at it no matter how hard I tried, yet if I had looked I doubt I wouldh have seen anything but a breathing wall. But in that moment, waves upon waves of realizations totally new and alien to me came crashing in all at once, like I was receiving a thousand lessons on the nature of reality at every second in time. This followed my most intense visual decent into madness to date, lasted roughly 3 hours, and was followed by an inability to decipher between thought and objective reality, dreams and shared Earth, everything simply made not the tinyest bit of sense and though there was no introspective work done at all (nor was the desire felt to do any), it was the hardest to put mind, body and reality back together again and doubt still lingers with me to this day.
It was like having not only ego death, but all encompassing death, death permeated all, which died and dropped into an angel's hand and she blew the scattered peices out into every direction, then laughed while I pathetically tried to collect them and put it all in place.
But really it wasnt an angel, it was everything, and at the time my only thought was that it was God, but now I am open to think that maybe it was just my very limited personal perception of God, manifested for guidance which I still have not incorporated to my being since I dont understand, and this may just be why the shamans claim to commune with Spirits. Maybe, whatever God or Spirit is, reveals itself in isolated pockets of Itself for us to commune with and be able to come back to Earth and continue being a citizen lol. Even then, people lose their minds.

 

Severley, I have seen you around the forums but must admit that I have not read enough of your posts to gather an opinion as to what kind of tone and wisdom to expect from you, and I will say that your initial post struck me as very ignorant.
But I was not offended at all and I realize that everyone has ups and downs. No hard feelings I hope and I look forward to getting to know you better. We all help each other grow here, that much is certain
God bess

 

For anyone that either stopped reading my above post due to length or my childlish refusal to appropiatley place spacing and paragraphs when I write, I will sum up my point in this post, though it almost automatically leads to negative interpretations Im sure.

I think the spirits are angry. We can still approach them, but they will probably hurt you if you are not ready to receive healing for ailments you dont even know you have.

 

When does a spiritual journey become just another day at work??

 

When you've earned it :tongue:

 

Eternity Bless

 

...and you mainly mean mushrooms right? what about other drugs?

Maybe my opinion doesn't have a lot of validity, since I have only took mushrooms once, and it was a dose the majority of you would laugh or even outright scoff at. But I have to say, my singular experience, pitifully portioned dose with mushrooms was so intensely beautiful.

Maybe this is ignorant, but perhaps the low dose, and respect of the chemical is what primarily made it such a healing and beautiful experience to begin with?

 

Yes, Id say both the low dose and the respect you gave it, as well as the mental preperation you took beforehand, gave you the glowing experience.
I've had both my share of overwhelmingly good and bad experiences with mushrooms, but overall the trips where I've struck cosmic gold have made me feel like I downed toxic evil lol.
Im pretty sure that the major contributor to my intense physical pain was due to an automatic spiritual mental cleansing process, though there were several other factors I believe in control.
But the mental part was too much of a torture to ask anyone to bear, and I amazed myself that I didnt end up calling poison control or 911. I mean the worst of the worst :tongue: and I completley forgot that I had taken a drug, truly believing that I was dying for some unknown cause.
Keep in mind, though Im not sure this is applicable to everyone, but although I had several disturbing powerful experiences on mushrooms before this, I never had anything which left a scar like this until I reached 22 years old. I was in a very awkard transition at that point, trying to balance intense spiritual practice under yogic sadhana with being a father and working a job that should be renamed to stress-builder.
So I was always battling in my mind about what God is, what God isnt it, which path is right for me, how can I relate, where do I turn when Im the one who needs guidance, etc. just like many of you, but I was also in severe legal, financial and familiar troubles, so it sort of just built itself up to an explosion of all things cancerous. Just when I thought I was gaining a true path and becoming an 'enlightened' being, there came the spirit to puke all over my hopes and dreams and show reality for what it was. Or is. But way too much of it, I am ashamed to admit it in a way, but I could not bear with that level of understanding. Having compassion for the world, dealing with evil and cultivating kindness, exploring the depths of consciousness and the like are all fine and dandy, but this was a revelation on a scale too heavy for me to balance and it left my world crumbled and shaken to the core.
And thank God for that, because now I realize how weak and purposfully ignornant my spiritual journey had been up to that point.
I was healed in that sense, but there remains lifetimes more for me to fathom. So much was entirely alien and frightening, mostly because I was watching reality go into itself. I just couldnt understand how it is possible to feel, breathe, hear, see and think so many things at once and have them all be equal.

 

Man I only read the first page so sorry if this is a repeat of anyone else but this is such a joke as a whole; we're seriously gonna sit here and argue what exactly the psychedelic experience is? super LAME! This discussion sounds a lot like organized religion in general: IM right YOU'RE WRONG I'll hear nothing else. Why can't people grasp the simple concept that psychedelics are NOT the answer, the way, or the light. It's a chemical giving perspectives and views that are foreign to the brain... imagine if not one of us had a pre conceived notion of religion... would they then be some divine experience? Not at all, it would be one hell of a ride that opens our personal being to a whole new input of emotions and thought, am ranting now, but fuck...STOP arguing about what exactly the experience...you know no more than I or your neighbor, or your most hated enemy; accept that and you may FINALLY start your true journey; which I believe has jack shit to do with psychedelics in general.

 

It's fascinating how your post is riddled with the same display of close minded ignorance that you claim to despise.

Perhaps you should have read before blindly commenting on something you clearly don't have the ability to grasp.

 

:toetap05: done ranting?



ok. yes for YOU its not a divine experience, but for those open to such potentialities it can be a divine enrapturing experience; one that has lasting and positive influences on life after long the trip is over. a properly prepared ritual context is where you gain access to such experiences.

if you ain't tried cactus yet, you don't know what i'm talking about.
i have built a relationship with this plant, growing and cutting and brewing and i truly believe it is a divine entity.
It has shown me how to approach the experience, i even dream about what to use in my mesa and when to take a cutting, or sometimes i will dream when a new one comes to the nursery. It is very sentient, and the connection to something sacred and ancient is there, even in my own bio-region. It has completely shown me a way to live. if you approach it for what it is, a teacher, you will get much more out of the experience.

 

RELAYER, I think this is a very interesting question. My opinions often change, but here's what I think today:

If the spirits are angry, they need to relax. There are shamanistic traits lurking in each of us, but most people have to head to work at some point and find it difficult to fully integrate this other language/knowlege. Instead, they develop a dual reality system, which accommodates both understandings.

A career shaman has the luxury of dealing with only one reality system, just like someone who has never transcended 'normal reality' (never tripped). He has spent his life conjuring an air of mystery, and thrives on keeping what ought to be common experiences esoteric. To admit that he aint special would be a challenge to say the least. Of course, he is special, but only because he has chosen this lifestyle.

I propose that these experiences are for everyone and if the spirits don't like that, well, fuck em. Even going into a mushroom trip with the best intentions, preparations, etc. there is often uncomfortable territory, this comes with the, er... territory.

Somehow, it seems like the more people who are turned on, the better off everyone will be. I'm sorry if this seems contrary, but I really don't think it's about the spirits and how they feel, it's about us! How can we improve the human condition?

 

Oh I agree completley friend, that's why I said my summary will surely bring negative interpreatations, not that yours was negative but it goes off of the face value of my statement 'spirits are angry'.
What I really meant is that it is us who are not deserving of this healing, and when we reach out for it, we have to receive a sort of purification first, and this toxic removal process hurts like a biznatch :cheers2:
To say spirits are angry is very misleading, I dont think they even have emotions :tongue:

 

Brah, you arguing with yourself again?

 

This reminds me of the quote in my sight from George harison.

"if you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there."

(from the album 'brainwashed')