Methods Of Inquiry

Discussion in 'Philosophy and Religion' started by Meagain, Mar 26, 2015.

  1. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    What we accept as authority is absolute even though we may in turn at some point question it. If your view of authority is as ever present, that is not distorted by variation then we must account for change or new information. There is always something more to learn in relating to temporal circumstances. To say that the earth is flat is based on experiential evidence but the conclusion was based on limited experience.

    Don't know if this is relevant to anything that has been said.
     
  2. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Part III​
    The Two Types of Authority
    We have seen that Faith in any Belief that is not arrived at independently, is based on an Authoritarian source.
    We will look at Faith derived from personal internal sources later.

    Now we must look at the two types of Authoritarian Faith.

    The first is Dogmatic Authority.

    The term Dogmatism refers to laying claim to knowledge without a critical examination of the methods used to acquire that knowledge.
    Dogmatists accept self evident, intuitive truths, from an Authority source, without questioning the validity of those truths; or they create an elaborate chain of reasoning that can not be examined but supposedly supports the intuitive truths.

    In short, we have Faith in the Beliefs presented by the Dogmatic Authority even though there is no way to examine the process by which the conclusion has been reached.

    The second is Expert Authority.

    With Expert Authority we are again relying on an Authority but this time we are able to examine the process by which the Authoritarian Truth has been reached. The only thing that would stop us from an examination of the process would be our own lack of time, effort, opportunity, or capacity to do so.

    We have Faith in the Beliefs presented by an Expert Authority because we can examine the process by which they were reached, but due to the complexity of modern society we are unable to examine every Belief our-self.

    While either type of Authority may have originated through the Intuition and/or mental facilities of an individual or individuals, neither offers us the opportunity to exercise our own intellectual faculties, as in the first it is not possible and in the latter we do not make the effort.

    Next is Intuition.​
     
  3. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Comments, questions, discussions, pointing out of idiotic statements by me, etc.; are welcome.
     
  4. guerillabedlam

    guerillabedlam _|=|-|=|_

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    faith

    fāTH/

    noun

    1.

    complete trust or confidence in someone or something.


    I am focusing on the qualifier complete there.


    I think we place trust in many authority but I'm not so sure about faith. I think for some of these examples, it's the system rather than the individual authority we place our faith in. For instance, a teacher may mention his credentials of going to school for X amount of years and having a certain amount of tenure and we place faith in all that schooling and experience making it permissible to allow him/her to be holding their position. However, if they bring up material in a lecture which we question, then I think that suggests by the definition above we no longer have 'faith' in their particular curriculum although we still may trust their respective position of authority on certain subjects.
     
  5. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    I think maybe you are addressing two different aspects. One is the curriculum or individual, the other the institution. While we may have faith, or belief in the quality of an education granted by Yale, as an institution, that doesn't mean we automatically have faith, or believe, that everyone who has ever attended Yale has achieved the exact same level of education or is capable of developing the same level of curriculum on a particular subject.
     
  6. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Part IV​
    Intuition
    With the two types of Authority illustrated above, we saw that we must forgo independent rational inquiry and submit to an outside source.
    We do not exercise our own intellectual faculties but rely on another individual or organization for our Faith in a particular belief.

    So too, Intuition does not rely on rational thought but on Immediate Awareness.
    We when intuit something we do not seek for proof or evidence; what we know, or believe is "sell-evident". Indeed, if we find that we must seek for proof or evidence, then what we believe is not self-evident as we must look elsewhere for justification.
    If we claim to know something by a "sixth sense", we could construe that as a form of Intuition unless we then look for outside evidence of proof.

    But Intuition is an individual Truth which may vary for person to person. What I Intuit as true, you may Intuit as false.
    Worse we have no way of determining who is correct. If we offer proof that our Intuition is the correct one, then it is no longer self-evident as we have now offered an outside proof.

    Thus all that an Intuited Truth, or Belief can do is give an individual a feeling of certainty that can not be verified by others without introducing a further means of Inquiry.
     
  7. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Is that true? There must be some standard to be accredited and we rely in insist on those when determining suitability for the job. No college, that is an academic blind spot. Got to have a shirt and tie to get in.
     
  8. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Initially we rely on the diploma because we have Faith in the Authority of the institution.
    Then, ideally, it is up to the graduate to demonstrate our initial Faith in the institution by his or her Authority instilled by that institution.
     
  9. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    So now I have to take a break because I'm wondering if I've backed myself into a corner, I've left no place for the use of our own intellect.

    I listed the sources of Faith in our Beliefs as:

    Dogmatic Authority
    Expert Authority
    Intuition

    And I stated that Dogmatic Authority allows for no critical examination by the individual intellect, instead we rely on someone else or some organization to answer our inquiry.
    Expert Authority allows for Critical examination by the individual intellect, but for one reason or another we don't exercise that option, and again we rely on someone else or some organization.
    And Intuition relies on immediate awareness, before an intellectual analysis takes place.

    So it seems that we have to look elsewhere for some method of answering our inquiries that does depend on the use of our own intellect.

    So in the next section I will try to determine how we develop Faith in our Beliefs by the Empirical Method.
    I believe (note the use of the word "believe") that Rationalism would be covered under the heading of Intuition, so I will not go there. If anyone differs, as to that, we can discuss it.
     
  10. AceK

    AceK Scientia Potentia Est

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    what you think 'should' be true .. you just have to believe it.
     
  11. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    So enough to get you in but not enough to keep you there. How is authority demonstrated?
     
  12. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5A8vQx5pCU

    Yes you believe in the truth of your assertions but you can be deceived.
     
  13. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    By fiat as in "an arbitrary order or decree".
     
  14. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    So authority exists only on the basis of personal reference?
     
  15. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    Part V​
    Intellectual Analysis
    As we have seen that Authority and Intuition preclude the use of the Intellect, we must now investigate what happens when the Intellect is used to support or develop Faith in any Beliefs we may hold.

    If instead we choose to support or develop our Faith in our Beliefs by another means, we must go beyond the subjective and look to the objective.
    We must observe those things that are external to us as recognized by our senses. Then we may begin to consider, in an Intellectual manner the meaning of what those senses have conveyed. We compare and contrast those observations with other observations and reach rational conclusions about what we have experienced.

    But as the intellect is an internal, subjective activity, how can we be sure that any reasoning that we may reach by its use is correct?
    Intuition is also a personal subjective activity but it differs from the intellect in that no thought process takes place in regards to analysis and we have seen that it lacks a means of verification. It also arises without any external source.
    The same could be said of Authority. There is no way to verify its beliefs, as intellectual activity is abandoned so that verification is not possible, and we disregard or at least have no way of verifying any external source.

    At least by considering elements outside of our own personal being we have broadened our view to that which is beyond our individual self. We observe that which is other and we develop Faith in our understanding of those observations and come to Believe that that understanding is correct.

    But what if we have been deceived by our observations? When we use our sense of sight to view a stick protruding above the surface of a body of water, we note that it bends below the surface of that water. However, when we run our hand down the length of the stick our sense of touch tells us that it is straight.
    So how can we be sure that our senses are conveying a true picture of the world?
    Further, if our senses can be fooled without our knowledge, so too may not our intellectual process be likewise fooled without our knowledge?

    The conclusions I reach through an Intellectual analysis of my sensory data may differ from your interpretation of the same data source. Either or both of our sensory input or intellectual analysis may be in error without our knowledge.
    As each of us is an individual, how can we ever know which of us is correct, or which in error; or even if either one is correct?

    Is it more dangerous to claim Faith in the Beliefs derived from Authority, Intuition, or a possible faulty Individual Intellectual Analysis of questionable sensory input?

    Next: The Scientific Method of Inquiry.​
     
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  16. MeAgain

    MeAgain Dazed & Confused Lifetime Supporter Super Moderator

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    That could be one source. It may be based on a charismatic, respected, feared, or powerful person or organization. It might be based on tradition. Or it could be based on past knowledge.
    Or all of the above.
     
  17. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    But still it is the observer who is final as well as initial arbitrator.
     
  18. thedope

    thedope glad attention Lifetime Supporter

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    Of course life could be totally arbitrary and birth and death it's only certainty.
     
  19. Moonglow181

    Moonglow181 Lifetime Supporter Lifetime Supporter

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    yeah
    nothing's real
     
  20. MeatyMushroom

    MeatyMushroom Juggle Tings Proppuh

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    [​IMG]

    http://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman-ebook/dp/B005MJFA2W/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1427751512&sr=1-1&keywords=thinking+fast+and+slow
     
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