Meditation Warning

This sort of lower astral fixation is not due to environment but due to the lower level attachment of the practitioner. If such things occur then it's time to start wearing rudraksha to keep environmental fixations at bay.

 

Moreover, people attract what they put out. For this reason there are many forms of practice, including Dorge Drollo which will overcome all obstacles to effective and safe practice. But that's a tehnique of the Vajrayana, and so not for those who are not Bodhisattvas. Of course being a Bodhisattva, by definition clears these obstacles.
Bodhi = awakened
Sattva = purity

 

Chodpa,
With all respect to your opinions: It may well be an astral fixation, but it is a fixation upon me by the telepathic common consciusness. I have no attachment, lower or higher to this at all. Also the telepathic common consciousness is both environmental and evolvemental, much related to the inherited DNA which may well pass down visual memories of our ancestors.

Also I put out nothing but bliss and get back the worst kind of negative feelings from others, so in my case at least, opposites seem to attract. I also think that I attract better people like you, but not telepathically, in the person.

I'm not sure where the practices you mention come from, but there have been very many deaths in Sri Lanka and other parts of India in conflicts between people lately. It is exactly this energy which is ignored in meditation and even not recognized by a focus on bliss that causes these deaths as I have mentioned previously. Is it not about time that people do not take each others feelings and thoughts and continue with their own lives in peace?

blessed be
Honor Seed

 

What can be shared in meditation as happiness from and to others at a great distance also carries the balance of all the negative. I therefore prefer to relate in person to people rather than from a strictly spiritual attainment. I will have my reward when I meet you in person. And the others too.

peace be to you Chodpa
Honor Seed

 

Thank you. And I have been thinking about what you have stated. I still am unsure if you are dismissing meditations altogether as inadequate for transformation, of oneself, of the world, or whether you accept meditation as a potentiallity for transformation but consider yourself unable, or even whether you are saying that any benefit derived from meditation will return an equal and opposite reaction. Or none of these things.

All I can answer is that the atavism of our less wholesome selves is always seeking higher and greater levels of wholistic function, and that sometimes small and inadequate things rise to the top of the heap, and having inadequate and truely wholistic vision and fucntion they can tend to usurp what is adequate and wholesome.

Let's take an example. How about the histamine response of the body. If it is maintained in a wholisitc response, that is, niether rising beyond its value or function, nor lowering itself out of the picture then histamines function to limit the influence of environmental circumstances so that one is thereby preserved.

However, through overweening conditions and or maladjusted response histamines can create as harsh an effect on the host organism, the human body, as their opposite, no histamine response, and then one seeks anti-histamines to keep them tame.

Another example. When one cooks something, if they cook it at medium heat with attention then the product can be cooked well, and yield a nondual result of perfect wholesomeness. However, if one cooks at high heat, paying little attention then if they burn the product then they must apply an antidote. maybe to get rid of some bitterness they must apply some sugar into a burned sauce.

Of course, often in cooking very harsh inattentiveness cannot be remedied, as in the case of a scorched sauce, in which case the only solution is to start over, or do without. This is a source of misery, wasting things, and so....

meditation which provides greater mindfulness, may in fact raise issues of harsh elements, and yet, this added mindfulness can provide a more consistent life, more useful, and more free of dualities which produce the need for antidotes.

All of life is said to take place in the field of dualities. You will hear from many student meditators and spiritual aspirants such tales of demonc contrivance and spirit harm, necessitating an antidote of either a protection circle or exorcism. And yet, in the nondual traditions, neither light , nor darkness are seen as the ultimate realization, but rather the play of life, and the ultimate of realizations is seen to be that which has gone beyond dualities.

One might say, well, if one has gone deyond duality, then is there not also a duality of a state which is immersed in diversity. In contrast to duality. ???

But the teachings generally describe that the state of nonduality=oneness, is not another state but is acceptance of the actual state of the base of existance as identical with ones own nature. And so as such these various dualisms take a backseat to the steady and constant suchness state of jnana or knowingness, or wisdom. Which cannot be undone.

Life then unfolds as a snake unwinding in the warmth of the sun.

Moreover, the state of nonduality is the final exorcism because it superceeds all dualisms, it is the ultimate protection circle because nothing resides outside its scope.

I hear you that you have not met any sort of human meditation master, but there are many. In fact, many many. From alll traditions. the real irony is often that those who could best use their help are most hidden. Just as the greatest treasures are the most hoarded. They are not opened up for the impoverished.

But that said, if one seeks then they will find. But this depends upon the nature of the seeker. A seeker easily discouraged is not much of a seeker and will find not much of answers. A truer seeker will no more be able to stop seeking as they would be able to stop eating, moving, or breathing, and seeking is their innate personality, as close to their minds at all times as the hair on their head.

Thanks for your 'Blessed Be's and such. I feel that you have what it takes to make it to the top of the world of spiritual systems. Maybe you might start at the top and consider Dzogchen?

 

""But the teachings generally describe that the state of nonduality=oneness, is not another state but is acceptance of the actual state of the base of existance as identical with ones own nature. And so as such these various dualisms take a backseat to the steady and constant suchness state of jnana or knowingness, or wisdom. Which cannot be undone.""


isn't this 'base of existance' the telepathic plane? or, that's just a word for it,, but, you know, what we're talking about,, living through the forces of this earth and space and ____

it seems to me that Honor^ is talking about the existence of bad forces, just as much as love,, both absolutely exist, no? he didn't once mention personal struggles or living in duality though, for all i gathered, he has been talking about the acceptance of this world,, the 'dark' and the 'light',, except he didn't label those either,,

he didn't mention any exercises needed to obtain any nonduality either**
why would you need those?

he's alive, and he's experiencing,, and he's simply teaching what he has gathered in his life,, and i too, right now, and chin deep in all this - trying to stay above water,, maybe those exercises you mentioned would benefit me overcoming my insecurities, -who knows,,
*in my life, i've thought of the crossroads where i can avoid the 'lower fixations' and 'rise out' of this inescapable connectedness i experience, but my heart keeps telling me 'down here' is where humans and all creatures are meant to be,, 'down here' = the 'base of existence'?? i dunno, but i know down here my Heart's at work, and it's doin alright, i'd say..

how'd that jim morrison song go? universal mind,, 'i was doin time in the universal mind, i was doin fine,, i was turnin keys, i was doin alright'

i dont know if these insecurities arise from my own Self, or from 'harsh sentences', just the same,, (as talked about earlier),, who can say??
all i know, is that resently, i've been discovering that my endurance and acceptance of embracing a wave of insecurity can do great things for those around me, no dual worlds, just still living - through this,, snake uncoiling, always,, and turnin keys

i try not to personalize it, -my insecurities,

i agree whole heartedly with your Words* on being a seeker,, and i also whole heartedly think that Honor has been seeking for longer then you were born-- no wait, you didn't state your age,,

much love yall~
ethan

 

I'm 40. I don't really understand exactly what Honor Seed was talking about. I guess therefore I was talking out of my ass. Which means I don't know what I was talking about either. I asked him to explain in more detail so I could get it, but I'm not suure if that happened or not, so left to my own devies I ad libbed.

I'm not sure about good and bad being absolute forces. In fact I would have to state the opposite. I guess the notion is something like how when the Maras or demons sought to shoot Buddha with arrows, he changed them into flowers. After realizing that they could not harm him they lost consciousness.

 

we all talk out our ass =P some of our farts smell nicer then others though - i'd say,, (say anything, and 10 years down the line, see if your opinion has changed) i like on honorseed's website how he writes 'kindness is all that matters in the end'

what Honorseed is talking about in this thread, i think, is the telepathic plane,, this is not necessarily 'i can read what you're thinking', but more, the change in the energy in the air,, how you can sense when someone is upset , happy, angry, etc,, he went on further to share his experiences/opinions on how this telepathic plane can be picked up through meditation, but moreso through teaching --
i once spoke to a rabbi who taught me about intent,, i was learning WORLDS between his words,, what he was talking about was great,, but his intended shift of energy and thought moved me and taught me much much more then the words he was saying**
this is more what Honorseed is talking about, i believe
,,, i dont think that there is much contradicting argument between you and honorseed's thread,,, honorseed's opening post was about how meditation can yatta yatta yatta,, what i believe you are bringing into this thread is how we can heal ourselves through these Teachings you are sharing with us,, Honorseed would probably agree with you that meditation can be very healing (i am gunna stop talking for honorseed now*),, but what you are talking about is not truly telepathy, or the connectedness between not only humans, but animals and (some would believe) plants and maybe even spirits,,

truly, i'm gunna look into everything you suggested and were talking about, cuz god knows i can really settle my mind right now, and strengthen myself**

and by the age comment,, i was just trying to imply that we shouldn't assume much about folks =P it tickled me wrong when you commented on how honorseed should take up your path,, or at least, what you're interested in now - those Teachings,, and how he can one day make it to the top of such and such,,
any man who teaches another man can be a bodhivista, dont gotta commit to any practices,
but really, i'mma look into those forms of meditation** and thanks for them, your posts i'm not wanting to chop down one bit**

**** and i like buddhas idea of nothing can harm him,, and i wish for me that was damn true,, but with what me and honorseed and many many others (just as many as master meditators) are 'insane with', this empathy, to sense not 'good' or 'bad' forces,,, but literally sadness, or bliss,,, living down in the lower chakras (i think is what you were callin the attachment), i dont think means you aren't intune with the higher ones,, but i do know that whatever this chakra nonsense is, picking up on emotions of folks is very real,, or at least, the flux in my own emotions is -- which i guess can be the point of what we're talking about,, are these emotions we sense our own, or are they part of a collective consciousness, which honorseed warns meditation can sensitize you to***

thats why i was sayings, i'm trying not to personalize these sensations of emotions that pass by my way,, and like the rabbi taught me, and really many other folks throughout life, to intend a more positive emotion--
when folks better understand the works of this connectedness,, and understand that love and peace is the way,, we as a Whole can really do wonders in healing this humanity and this Earth,,,


***all straight out my ass =P, ad libs, just like everyone else =)

 

Okay, I reread the thread and think I derived the intent behind it.

I think Honor Seed is saying that anything experienced is merely some material manifestation of some prpevious being's state.

But I can emphatically say that it's not so.

Well, almost emphatically. I mean, sure, in my practice we take refuge in the Three Roots. Which are the Guru, Deva, and Dakini.

I suppose it could be said that one is tryng to copy the state of mind of the Three Roots. But actually, according to the path I follow called Dzogchen, one is not becoming immersed in a material manifestation of personality but rather the state of pure potentiality without relative considerations. This state we call rigpa.

It is stated to be beyond the 'minds' of beings, as the primordial state of emptiness, clarity and effulgence.

In my tradition we have what is known as trekchod, which means relaxing the whole deal. Just dropping it. What? Everything, when? Always.

Sounds like Honor Seed got a bit into specific experiences. Don't get me wrong. he sounds like a sincere student of the occult (By occult I mean esoteric, or hidden, or inner).

But these experinces regardless of how high falutin they are, even if one is seeing angels and demons, gurus from previous kalpas and so on, we consider 'nyam.' Which just means experiences. Not the essential truth of the matter.

Sure, what I have expressed is not a conceptual thing and so it can be said, what is the use of such contemplation? Well, obviously, if one is trying to get to Detroit then one can sorely use a map, unless they want to drive forever.

Of course 'road trip mind' is okay as well, if that's the joy.

Some people on the way to Detroit find peace and comfort in Philly, and decide to stay there.

But to describe all spiritual experience as manifested and material I think misses much of the point of the goal as unmanifested pure potentiality, identification with thereof, and resolving to remain in that state, free of materialism, even of the subtle sort such as on the level of thinking and emotion, ego, intellect.

Rather, cutting through all these one finds that the ground of emptiness, clarity, and effulgence is at once shared within as well as without.

This would be the goal, if one didn't break down before Detroit. Of Dzogchen practitioners.

Now, we don't know what Honor Seeds goal was due to his not saying. His goal possibly was merely nyam, or experience, in which case I would say he got what he asked for.

But that doesn't mean he needs to reify the entire course of life into a do this/don't do that sort of category, though one can commend his following his vision with conviction, whatever it is.

 

Well, as for my statement about 'starting at the top' I really meant that from the point of view of the nine yanas or vehicles of the Buddhist tantrics, in which Dzogchen is considered 'the peak' or top.

Not that I don't think it's tops altogether, of all paths. I also don't feel sorry for saying that just as if say we were at dinner and you said, "Oh Man I gotta have the red chicken curry," and I said, "Dude, you gotta have the green chicken curry, it's tops!"

 

India is a million new initiatives now and GoodNewsIndia is dedicated to publicising them.

World standard toilets:
Since 1999, Fuad Lokhandwala has been demonstrating in New Delhi that building and running toilets to world standards is possible along sound commercial lines.

Possibly an Indian culture dedicated to the respect of spiritual masters who focus on the telepathically received 'good' of nature should have long ago focused on the emotions jealousy and embarrassment telepathically during meditation. Tibet is another country whose spiritual leaders also then in political power believed a focus on 'good', rather than a balance with which to act on, was in the best interests of the common people. What need, after thousands of years, is there for a poverty stricken poor person to have a dalai lama who is reaching for the image of an 'enlightened one' at the top of a 'intelligence level'? The communists, as a result brought, about a revolution, for which, the dalai, in all his wisdom could not see beyond his admirers.

To ramble on, the telepathic receptions, some of them, have some words for me, they think as if they were one person standing before me. I have no answers about how to totally avoid this force. I have no sure ways to teach to avoid what people refer to as 'bad vibes'. I only feel my way, my path, must take greater interest and hence action and deeds, into and back to the creation of art, the improvemnet of my home and land and the organization and cleaning of things, as well as the tending of my loving dogs and cats.

Perhaps I dallied to long in very lengthy contemplations for decades as a part of checking and rechecking that which astounded me, having heard nothing or read nothing of any similar experiences from others.
For I have stopped meditation techniques for a little over a year and half now, and in the last few days I have seen a wacky, kooky, zany 16 foot tall giant wiht blonde hair standing in my yard, a TV screen below the Noble fir, images of my dogs where they are not, and some very close shadow people standing next to me.

These are all around everybody, different ones, but they are there. People do not see them. They are the group entities or individuals brainwave telepathic energy. And yes, the Buddha I saw radiating light rays from ear to ear standing 2 feet tall on the pillow next to me is someone elses imagination, it is from a living source, NOT a vision that Buddha gave me. The spirit of people passed goes back into the living energy vision of what looks like the model of the inside of the brain that I saw totally within a mass of greenery. It looks like cotton candy. The touch on my back indicates that is a deception. Forget the last statement. Who knows where the spirit of passed one goes?
Remember Ethan, when things get to hectic in the realm of tele-mepathy,
the time is come to plan ahead some things to do, time to focus on taking it easy being happy doing things you like doing.

Chodpa, after reading post #48, I already sensed that to be happy with my knowledge is to be silent about it. That is the way the negative energy that thinks as a person(s) would have it. Look at how many years the British ruled India until Ghandi came along. Yes, the Indians were very adept at being happy ignoring the negative aspects. So 'good' in fact, at ignoring things like unsanitary sewage disposal, it has taken until now for them to feel embarrassed or jealous enough to get some toilets.

The huge quanity of black energy spotted in about 3000BC by Persians at the Euphrates is the same energy that was called evil cast out by Jesus. It comes in various shades of energy light to white. It is neother angelic or demonic in an other wordly sense. If the angels of God chose to heal, one angel from God could heal the whole world of all suffering in the snap of your fingers. And for the rest of time there would be people living many hundreds of years. I openly suggest I will live a long time, even though there is bad all around.

May you all live to a thousand years, peace, relax, as soon as a feeling not your own comes upon you like sadness, anger or a feeling of being hurried, time to put a previous plan of doing something else immediately that you figure you can do slow and easy, happily and self-confident. And I mean immediately, like as soon as you read these words..........beacause the evil flows thru me like a river, it does. Time to not take anyone seriously enough to manipulate them telepathically, for what may be happening is that which is manipulated is not them but bad thru them.......at least until after the 4th of July. And reserved I am. For things can change to make what I wrote not the right advice. Play it by ear, may the force be with you. ( I was saying that years before they came out with the first Star Wars ) Be spontaneous ( the highest form of Japanese artistic expression, wonderful is second)

Chodpa, can I order a half plate of red curry and the other half green, I'd like to make up my own mind which is top level Take it easy Ethan, hillbilly was right, and don't ask. Also don't get lost in the labels for this reason, it is better to stop all extra thinking and just focus on feeling happy, notice what incoming then seems to hurry you along, take heed my friends. There is no reason we shouldn't be able to feel happy for a least five minutes straight with toilets and soft beds The feeling memories of the suffering past peoples have come through the DNA. They are powered onward by living peoples minds, most people seem to be able to cast out the 'evil' in themselves without even knowing it. So if we are going to debate, let us debate whether or not, negative feelings can be 'gifted' to us at birth from DNA. I have a few links. Even being frantic and up to your eyeballs in fast and furious interactions with people at lets say the age of 20, can be because the generations before you had very serious trials and tribulationss tepping out into a wild and even more dangerous world trying to make a living with an honest handshake. The survival drive was even more of a force then, with food shortages, no toilet paper, sometimes sleeping on the dirt with little rocks under your ancestors. This all causes an evolvemental feeling response at a specific age and it probably has nothing to do with the environmental situation you now endure.

sunshine and love,
Honor Seed

 

oh I forgot to add, it was the strangest thing laying there wiht my eyes closed tight facing straight up........when I saw Buddha, I was aslo having a bodily sensation I was peeking to my left from under the covers at him. The other side was balance by a vision that aliens were duplicating my body in a far away place and my leg went off the bed to feel steel rollers, which was not he case. I guess this was the strangest way to see and feel visions, I usually look at them straight on or see them in a mirror. Seeing myself as happy and insane the other day is the only one in a mirror in quite a while that was puncuated by my face going to white light.

Well for the thought I was going to never write about telepathy again after chodpas #48 post, thanks guys for helping to break me outta that funky idea. I enjoyed the idea I would become the supreme happiest source of wisdom telepathically on earth, but who needs that goal, when at times I have already had the 'title' for a day.
Whoaaaaaaaaaa.........better stop......what if? naw.......I'll think about this one..

bye.......lol

 

clifford geertz wrote:

"One can move between forms in search of broader unities or informing contrasts. One can even compare forms from different cultures to define their character in reciprocal relief. But whatever the level at which one operates, and however intricately, the guiding principle is the same: societies, like lives, contain their own interpretation. One has only to learn how to gain access to them."

just after he wrote:

"If we see ourselves as a pack of Micawbers it is from reading too much Dickens, if we see ourselves as unillusioned realists, it is from reading to little."

in 'Deep Play: Notes on the Balinese Cockfight', check it out if you guys wanna read something very destabilizing*,,


and thanks again honorseed =))

 

Well, I am enjoying this conversation because regardless of specifics it's clear that you HonorSeed are a very spiritual and thoughtful person. As well as forthcoming with your thoughts. Moreover, when I went to Maharishi International University in the 80s I had friends perhaps similar to you who saw huge beings everywhere of light and darkness. So I know that you're not alone in your perceptions.

I think that at some point a person does stop grasping at experiences and makes peace with themselves in that regard.

It's especially a difficult life for those with subtle perceptions. I know. Though I feel the necessity of not discussing my own personal visions for the reason that they can often mislead others.

I feel that as the old analogy for tantrics goes, the only way out is through, is the way for those of us who have gotten ourselves into this spiritualistic karma. And it's ceratinly not easy which is why tantrics are called vira/virani = heros/heroines, or dakas/dakinis.

Like a snake in a cane which cannot turn around. The tantric must simply continue on. There's not much choice in the matter once one has had kundalini turned on. The choice would have been before asking for kundalini. What do you think?

 

oh yeah man, i firmly believe that the more perceptions i get thrown at me, the better off i am,, ( i truly am gunna, eventually, look into your practices),, it's like our resivoir of angles of seeing Objectivity deepens and is added to - the resivoir our pale dunks down into when we pull up subjective opinions ~~~ it is the individual's choice what he or she takes in or leaves alone,, take it or leave it,, does it contradict or compliment? there is method to everyone's madness,, and sometimes what at first contradict will eventually destabilize our worldview, and we might take a step in another direction all together,, still our own path,, still always growing,, a beloved english teacher , professor leonard liotta, taught me of Static or Dynamic worldviews -- stableized or in flux~~

and everything you're saying, i'm lovin, really =), like i said earlier, i dont think your and honorseeds opinions are contradicting too much at all, they're just not talking about the same thing~

about kindulini,, i think i'm already engaged,, i feel my heart turning, i feel my gut chakras curling,,
just the other week, in france, my family and me were walking through a town, and saw 3 native americans performing music, and when the music shifted, 2 of the guys started started jogging in circles with their arms spread like eagles,, in a second i felt the most intense force in my brow chakra~~ by the end of their performance, i was sitting half lotus, crying,,

it's all bout the same thing~~
'i am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together'

 

My little point of view: meditation is much more calmer than this thread (no offense here, the informtion is there, but debated with much ... waves)

Meditation is a place of "no mind", where you can be at peace. If you remain in "no mind" while elevating yourself spiritualy, you'll find the bliss of Spirit. If you remain in "no mind" while staying in your normal daily life attitude, you might come across fear and anguish of the common consciousness.

Want a trick guys (not HS, i know you're experimented), simply smile in life, and be happy the best you can. Allways end a conversation with a smile. Be happy... and then go meditate.

 

The only time I immediately felt like I had 'no mind' was when I put a magnet next to my head.......didn't always give me that blank feeling, but it did often enough to realize magnetism effects the mind. Underneath is a news article released a few hours ago. So telecino is probably manipulating the magnetic waves around the head to get the 'no mind' state.

"Migraine starts because of neuronal hyperexcitability, during which patients see flickering lights or other manifestations of an aura. The hyperexcitability phase is followed by fatigue and depression of neurons, which spreads throughout the brain, and the result is a pounding headache," Dr. Yousef Mohammad said in a teleconference.


"We hypothesized that if we could interrupt this cortical spreading depression by administration of TMS, we could abort the headache," he continued.

His group conducted a 3-month study that included eight migraine-with-aura patients. They were instructed to use a portable device, which they held to the back of their head to deliver two TMS pulses 30 seconds apart as soon as they experienced an aura.
http://today.reuters.com/News/newsA...01_COL266526_RTRUKOC_0_US-MAGNETIC-DEVICE.xml

 

good words telecino, but we're not only discussing meditation,, even though, any and everything is allowed to be thrown into this boiling pot of conversation~

with 'no mind', meditation, sure, is a desire for impending no mind (or i would say, like you said, experiencing Spirit's bliss), with kinda a paradox there with 'desireing' no desire - letting go,,

'no mind' walking through society,, or i should say, pulling yourself along through the city streets limp and 'no mind', sure you can do that,, and you're probably right, you'll probably be ultra receptive to the stimulus's we're talking about in this thread,, anguish and whatnot (is it our own? or are we picking up on it,, is what we're dancing around in this thread-- also, can we tune out to it, i guess - amoung other topics),, but, when i'm walkin through the streets, i'm in 'MY mind', i dunno about 'no mind', and i got this assumption of 'everyone's mind', but still, it's me walkin,, and empathy, or at least the flux in my emotions experienced, is definitely present,,~ i dont know about no mind or what, just know about livin and experiencing what it is to be alive, or at least, how i'm walkin through round this earth,,

but please please, share soem more in here with us,, i wanna hear what you got to say~~

***i think this touches up on HS's initial post in the thread - and his warning on meditation~~ how meditation itself can maybe shed some layers impending our everyday 'mind' closer to 'no mind', which, he warns, might make us telepathically receptive~~ don't buddha say that too? no mind = no self?

peace

 

dang, telecino, your words, just a little while ago, hit home in many ways - ways tellin me to keep my mouth shut, to say a long revelation short,,
something i've come across a few times, n cant seem to soak as much as what the insights share with me on not sharing feeble opinions,,
but still, part of me is always wanting to share my mind,
which has nothing to do with meditation, but it does, i guess,

 

just sharing photos of the timegate vision I saw, a picture is worth a 1000 words and the Hairball Man I pulled outta the washing machine today.

peace
HS