Maori Peoples of New Zealand like to play golf

Tree Ferns is wrong too? So if you New Zealanders are having so much trouble getting your culture right, why are you getting on my case so much as an outsider for getting it wrong?

 

Alright, poo on them. It can be a little weird when you dont understand the context of the haka.

Out of curiosity, has anyone ever returned a haka or just turned their back on it?

 

yeah a rubgy team a few years ago turned their backs on the all blacks when they were doing their haka. people went crazy about the disrespect.

pacific island teams return hakas as well.

 

Tree Ferns isn't wrong.

 

Yeah. I saw this thread getting kr-kr-crazy from the get-go.

Favourite bits in brief:

haka dance as in "Prior to rugby matches the All Blacks perform their haka dance"

the natives as in "The natives are restless"

tree ferns - because I'd never really noticed how weird and 'non-kiwi' that whole introduction into the forum was! Who wrote it?

 

lmao I assume it was written by Skip.

the thing is, its really difficult to not be cheesy and/or wrong with these things...

"Kia ora, come join the chats, bro." just doesn't quite work, huh?

 

I'm interested in finding out what she had read in the first place that inspired her to start the post..

Nah, actually i'm not

 

I never read anything but it was talked about at our episcopal church as we have adopted the new litany of the anglican church in new zealand which is in part, Maori inspired. In talking about the Maori, it was mentioned that one of them climbed to the pinnacle of the golfing world in his defeat of Tiger Woods and how he had performed haka prior to golfing matches.

has anyone ever heard of this new litany?

 

no, sorry. And molly, no-one is trying to jump down your throat, it's just that sometimes (i don't know if this is just a NZ thing, but I doubt it) people need to word what they say carefully, to stop other cultures feeling belittled, or like someone said, like a novelty act.

as for the intro...no one who frequents this forum wrote it. In fact, if you go back to the earliest posts on this forum, you will see how much people ripped the shit out of it.

also chris - we studied American responses to NZ culture in one of my film papers. There does seem to be a bit of a running theme of (unintentional?) disrespect: like this commercial for, i think it was gridiron/football, where they did the haka and it was really mocking, or these robot lego fighting things they bought out with Maori and Pacifika names and histories that had been twisted.

meh, i don't even know what I'm trying to say - maybe just that different cultures should be treated with respect? which might include researching the traditions of the culture before you start talking about and/or profiting off them?

 

Haka and football? really? never seen anything like that and i'm usually pretty up on football stuff. Was it guys just staring each other down..or was it actually the haka? I think it would be very weird for american football players to perform the haka and chanting in a pacific language. I'm really curious now. Do you know anything about the ad? i want to try and find it.


I do think it would be unintentional disrespect. It happens quite a lot though. We have sports teams called 'chiefs' and 'braves' which get criticized by american indian groups. I don't personally see that as disrespectful, but thats me.

Im sure you could do a study on NZ responses to American culture that show them being quite disrespectful too. The treatment of American sports is a good example. Americans from the south are probably the most stereotyped people on the planet. Ironically, they are probably the nicest people on the planet.

Me either. And of course, all cultures should be treated with respect.

 

yeah they actually did the haka, or at least pretended to.
My lecturer (who is from Texas - so it was a fairly balanced view of things) screened it in class...i'll try and find out more...

 

alright, that would be great..thanks


I've been thinking a bit about the haka and sports. It is a war dance. But rugby isnt war. So, part of me says, why give the all blacks a chance to pump themselves up and pyschologically get an edge on you? It seems rather stupid allow that to happen. But if you don't, you're disrespectful?


They talked a bunch about the haka in my Maori studies class and how some in the Maori community were against the all blacks using the haka, since using it for sport wasnt historically accurate.

 

I think things can maybe move with time - perhaps it would be better to call it a battle cry or something?

it had been a bit butchered outside rugby too - there was an ad in britain that had a bunch of women doing the haka in bikinis in order to sell rtds, and there was a bit of an outcry when the Spice Girls did the haka.

but I think the all blacks know the spritual and cultural significance of the haka, so they can do it with respect. And they should be allowed to get themselves into it - i mean most groups have something - the waltzing matilda on oz, swing low sweet chariot for the english in the world cup (how that one relates i'm not too sure)

 

what?? swing low sweet chariot is sung by british supporters for RUGBY? ugh..now that is disrespectful.

 

I guess people can have their culture and country belittled, just because they're ignorant of the facts or believe just what they see on tv.

Some American uni students asked my mates and i if we ate Kangaroo. Other foreign people at a seminar i went to, asked if the Aboriginals still speared people. God that was embarrasing. What kind of thought process is that. A lot of people think that the Aboriginals and maybe the Maori are almost barbaric in what they perceive to be "their way" They think they are these wild people but that's not true. I want to stress i am refering to the foreigners i have met or see, not the general population.

 

well, do you eat kangaroo? i have..its quite yummy actually. When i was in Oz kangaroo was all over the supermarkets. You might be the only nation that eats its national animal

Well, i think there is a problem with how some indigenous peoples portray themselves and their culture to the rest of the world. The haka is a very violent and suggestive dance. The one cultural aspect of the Maori that gets beamed to everyone in the world is the Haka. It doesnt do much for the Maori image as not being brute and warlike. I would hope that people wouldnt be so quick to judge, but people are. However, i think cultures need to look at themselves and then ask "why do people view us this way?" I dont think it is all racism...

 

If you're gonna say that roo tastes like chicken, i'm going to reach over the Tasman and smack ya upside the head

 

I think it's ok for Maori to keep some sense of their warrior traditions alive. I mean look at films like Once Were Warriors, that kind of shows the , i din't know the right word here, displacement? some Maori might feel, at having the Pakeha definitions of success and failure forced down their throats.

but just because they might be a warrior culture doesn't mean they are like savages or anything. I just think calling anyone 'the natives' or treating anyone's ancient and often tapu based traditions as a novelty act, like a chimpanzee tea party, smacks of colonialist wankery.

 

of course.

However, in western society we often associate war with barbarism(until we partake in it). So it is kind of a clash of cultures. Still, i would hope that people wouldn't jump to conclusions..especially when the haka seems to only be done in sporting/cultural events/welcoming ceremonies.

Although, i'm still not sure why "the natives" is taken as more negative than "the indigenous population." Maybe native conjures images of sitting in the bush. They both mean the same thing though.

 

I was wondering why you mentioned Greg Norman. Is he of aboriginal descent?