Lsd, Shrooms, or Salvia?

oh, we're talking about a similar, but a little different thing. Thumbprint I am talking about is done with crystal, as a test of character. I think what you're talking about is more like what happened to this one lady's friend at a phish show in 94, puddle of squid on his hand and he was found a couple days later naked in his car hundreds of miles away, not dead of course, just chilling naked. Must have been a little out of it when he came to though lol.

 

no, we're talking about the same thing...only we called it "crystal wash", but he did press his thumbs in it. the crystal was later diluted, and put into a breath drops bottle

I've never heard of anyone tripping on LSD for days, though...news to me; and I've had a fairly extensive background with the stuff

 

I had another friend who did 21 hits of white fluff; he just passed out.

 

Brings back some memories..................

 

Ok, I'm confused. Why refer to thumbprints as the same thing when it's two different things? The name crystal wash implies that theres some sort of liquid involved. I know that what ceswild is referring to is rather hardcore (and I wish I had the opportunity/balls to try it) and what it actually refers to, because SWIM (who wanted to make LSD purely for the adademic thrill) explained to me how crazy shit can get.

What's the point in arguing though, I'm fairly certain that no matter how different the trips are, acid takes you farther out. If shrooms give you a more introspective mystical experience, then obviously you're not going as "out there" as you could possibly be. The ridiculousness of acid is being able to pull information out of those experiences.

But like I told a friend the other day who said she'd never do acid cuz it was too hardcore - its not about how you get there, its the fact that you're going.

 

no, they are both one and the same substance; crystal wash is just another name for the end product; LSD after the last filtration, after being washed with a solvent.
a "thumbprint" is a method of taking it

that's where some of us disagree, especially the ones of us who've done massive amounts of both, and I'm not sure by what you mean by "if shrooms give you a more introspective mystical experience, then obviously you're not going as "out there" you could possibly be"...that is just flat out incorrect; once you've dissolved all association with personal identity, and enter the spiritual realm, you're already pretty far out there. and you think it's difficult pulling info out of an acid trip?? it's even more confusing trying to do so with a DMT flash, due to how fast/hard it hits you, and how quickly it's gone. Acid is very introspective, in its own rite, even at doses over 400mics. DMT can be very spiritual, but there's no time for introspect. ego and everything you thought you knew about life, gets disemboweled in less time than it takes to call home. With acid, you have a few hours to reflect

I digress, though... psilocybin is phosphoryloxy-DMT (essentially orally-active DMT), which comes on gradually like hoasca, and the more you take, the further out you're going to get, not the case with LSD; that vessel takes only takes you so far.

some people prefer LSD, some prefer shrooms; no argument there, it's just personal preference...though the dosage limit for the former also limits the extension of the realm. Someone pointed out that you could only eat so many mushrooms before purging...maybe, but not before booking your trip into the transdimensional superhighway of cosmic information; that's not even considering methanol extraction of psilocybin..you could encapsulate the resulting white powder, and ingest enormous amounts of psilocybin, without all the biomass.

when you come across dmt, and do a couple grams of dried liberty caps, or cyanescens (not necessarily at the same time), you'll see where I'm going with all this

 

Crystal wash just kind of implies to me something like taking the leftover from a lay of blotter and selling that as liquid, I dunno, I'm not exactly well-versed in all this acid verbiage.

My comments about not being as "out there" as on acid is based on what peope have told me who have done both. Acid just seems to me to be more "pure" and im gonna be vague on that. I understand where you're going with all this, but only on here have I heard of people getting really potent shrooms. None of the people I know (and I know a fair number of people who have done a fair number of shrooms...including a kid at my high school who bought eight ounces of shrooms a number of times) have EVER gotten the kinda shit that you could eat three grams of and trip your sack off. That's just based on my experience though, based on a good number of people's descriptions that I have actually met. And I run in a fair number of circles, so it can't just be who people know; maybe it's just this area.

And since you brought it up, why is there a dosage limit on LSD but not on psilocybin? By that reasoning, LSD becomes too intense, is that not correct? What do you mean by that? You could eat an entire sheet of acid and be *physically* ok, hell, we were just talking about thumbprints. You say it's about personal preference, yet at the same time you're attempting to imply that shrooms (or DMT, which I won't argue is more intense, thus harder to integrate) are somehow better.

 

LSD becomes too intense (?), that has nothing to do with it; metabolism does. How enzymes break down LSD once it's absorbed is what limits the effect of LSD, doesn't matter if you swallow a sheet, or dip your nuts in crystal; the plateau point is around 600 micrograms.

better is such a relative term; personally, I prefer shrooms over acid...acid never scared the crap out of me the way shrooms did, and I've had very hefty doses of both (I tend to trip by myself)..the fear factor is not what I base this on though; I base it on the levels of visionary state, which shrooms beat LSD, hands down.

6 - 7 hits was my average dose on acid, purple gels, liquid, blotters, you name it. I was comfortable tripping by myself, or with friends... but something about shrooms typically kicked my ass, particularly with fresh ones I grew. The visions were spectacular, even with just 20 grams of fresh ones.

I honestly couldn't tell you what it is about DMT-derivatives that makes them exceptional catalysts for advanced mindstates, as little is known about their mechanisms; what I do know is that the brain is more receptive to these molecules than LSD, based on tolerance build up, and drop off.

oh and the shrooms relayer and I speak of are worlds stronger than typical cubes your friends get
these are a somewhat different family (panaeolus) : http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ggreatone%20234/index.html

 

Hey first off to clarify, I'm not arguing with polymer at all, in the slightest bit, if it looks like that sorry, just trying to make sure we're not miscommunicating.

Well everybody I've come across who uses the term "wash" means the leftover squid from laying that is usually pretty potent, and for headstash. BUT polymer is talking about "wash" as in chemistry, so it's just like we're all on the same level but using a little bit different terminology.

Well, the number of people who do boomers is huge, but I also never encountered shit that was so potent he didn't wanna eat at the very least a few grams... but other people would say they "tripped sack" off of one gram, IDK it's all relative to the person. I know potent ones exist, cause I've run into hardheads that talk about em, I just never encounter them. Probably because most commercial stuff is cubensis AFAIK.

 

So then taking more and more acid just means your trip is going to be longer and longer? I'm not trying to sound like a dick, I'm just tryin for knowledge right now.

If that's the case, then why is doing a thumbprint such a big deal, other than being an initiation rite? I mean, obviously there's a difference between doing a thumbprint and taking 6-7 drops, tabs what have you. Not to critisize, cuz I do agree, it's about preference, I'm just trying to point some things out - you're basing your opinion of the potential visionary state of acid on a dose that isn't THAT high. Not saying I would do it without thinking about it first, but people have done more. Back when LSD was still being used clinically, doses started anywhere from 200 - 800 mics (I don't remember where I read that, I know it was in a clinical proceedure for psychiatrists to follow) and possibly higher, if the situation dictated (such as if a subject were more resistant to the drug, resistant to ego loss, whatever).

I don't want to get into an argument and get all bad blood and everything, I'm trying to get more info in debate-ish form.

(and yes, I know I'm basing my shit on my friends' experiences on shrooms, but i'm basing my opinion on that, not on the tripping potential of shrooms, I've read experiences)

 

cubes are by far the most common available on the black market, and the easiest to grow.

copes are regional (like liberty caps, and wavy caps), and harder to grow; you probably won't come across them as easily.

it's not unheard of to hear of people eating 8 or 9 grams of cubes; try that with copes or liberties, and you may find yourself curled under your blanket. they are that potent.

 

no bad blood at all, bro; this is a nice civilized discussion here.
and no, the more acid you take isn't going to prolong the trip either; metabolism is the regulating factor.

thumbprints (because they're absorbed through the skin, and bypass enzymes in saliva which may break it down quickly) are no doubt a very effective method of taking LSD at full strength; but once it enters the brain, enzymes break it down. so either way you take it, the effect plateaus (by the way, when I say 6 -7 gels or drops, that's in the area of 300 - 450 mics, a medium to medium-high dose; you won't get any greater effect beyond 600 - 700 mics, no matter how you take it.)

I've read that some people who were resistant to even high doses of LSD (it's rare) succumbed to I.M. DMT (as reported by dr. strassman); it has to do with molecular structure of the substances, and metabolism.

 

I might be wrong on the peak dosage/effect; it may actually have a shelf of 800 ug - 1mg, but the rest still applies (metabolism) I also read of that case where someone was injected with 320mg (320,000mics), and died, that's toxic shock.

perhaps I also have this notion that LSD won't produce what mckenna referred to as a "true hallucination" (correct me if I'm wrong)

 

What would a "true" hallucination be then? I must've been wrong, I thought in doing a thumbprint, the thumb was then put in the mouth.

Perhaps what some people have taken wasn't actually LSD, but I've heard (from a friend, not just "i heard around somewhere") of trips lasting 18-24 hours, because of how much was taken. Would that then just be how someone's body broke it down, that they just happened to trip longer? Because that last time I tripped that I always alude to, that night my buddy passed out hours before I did (although that may have had something to do with the numerous (I'd say at least 10) beers and Everclear shots he had when we were coming down. But he had said he felt like it was over when it was definitely not over for me.

I would like to try some shrooms, and my girlfriend told me recently that she MIGHT want to experience something of the sort sometime. Probably wouldn't be for a while if it ever does happen, but I want to try shrooms just to see if maybe it would be a better option for her. I know she wouldn't want to trip for 8-12 hours; probably would be more comfortable with 4-6. But the nausea...is there a way to avoid that, cuz she really has a strong aversion to throwing up. Tea? How do you make mushroom tea?

I'm open to shit, I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that there's only so much you can take with acid, and that shrooms you can somehow keep taking more and keep entering new realms. So my question is, what is the difference between taking say 700 ug and taking 1500 ug? Is there going to be no difference, or no discernable difference?

Oh yeah, just a random story, really sad, but...a few years ago, a friend of my dad's son was shot by the police while he was tripping on shrooms. He had gotten pretty far gone, was running around naked and at one point jumped up on the police cruiser. They hadn't intended to kill him, but they couldn't get anywhere near him to give him a sedative or anything. Good reason for always having a sitter.

 

wtf dude, wow wow did he file a suit against the cops? How hard can it be for a police officer to detain a teenager? Get the fucking donut and cumwad out your throat you filthy fucking pig, they're supposed to be in shape enough to detain people, i mean it's a teenage kid!!! that's ridiculous man, that is so sad.

I just realized you didn't explicitly say that I kinda assumed, so how old and what kinda build was this dude?

 

true hallucination would be something that you see that isnt in the context of lsd at all guess...Kinda like you are a few hours into tripping, and out of nowhere you see very clearly a cartoon man walking across the visuals, waving you, But even then youd know it isnt real. Acid shouldnt do this if your mind is healthy...worse, seeing people that arent there and actually believe they are real.

Yeah it is put in the mouth. But ive heard that as soon as you eat it you feel it...Then for the next minutes I guess is a part that your total will and fate is determinant. The only slight thought of 'this might be dangerous' will be catastrophic I suppose. But youll end up dead anyways, for a good time.

I dont believe the peak of lsd effects is at 700 ug...Polymer seems like he has one hardcore tolerance...talkin bout 400mic like itsa medium dose ;p ... Must be reachin the intensity of dmt there or almost...You just have more time before and after.

 

I'm not exactly sure, all I remember is that the situation was a bit more extreme than I told. I don't know all the details - I told what I know - but I do know that it was a bit more complicated than that. And yes, I'm pretty sure there were some legal issues that followed.

 

correct on the true hallucination

never heard of acid affecting someone right away, regardless of the way one takes it (can that really happen?)

acid can never reach the intensity of a DMT flash, no matter how high the dosage. it's just not that mind-blowing. DMT hyperspace makes even heroic doses of LSD seem like blowing bubbles. ego death? try ego annihilation and exhumation.

there is a peak dosage of acid/effect though, it may be around a mg, or possibly less. I've heard this from other gurus, and may have read it somewhere (more than likely "Hallucinogens: A Reader")

 

I don't think DMT is an issue here, I'm pretty sure all of us recognize that it's far more intense or however you want to describe it than acid. The way my friend described it to me (I had never heard of it before) was something like all of an acid experience condensed into a half hour or however long the drug lasts. He said it would be like rocketing off through space, and that people invariably see gnomes or the like on another planet or in a different dimension. At least that's what his buddies who have managed to find it have reported.

Off topic, but...is DMT as hard or harder to make as acid is? SWIM who wanted to attempt an LSD synthesis, was told to look into DMT because it's more rare. Info?

 

your friend must've had a low dose, because it's a lot more mind-blowing than an acid trip, that's for sure. Any dose beyond 55mg would convince you just how tame acid really is.

DMT is not hard to make at all; you can start with tryptophan ---> tryptamine, but you're going to need chemicals that may be watched (i.e. sodium borohydride), and formalin. Tell SWIY to read a few organic texts before attempting any synthesis; although synthing DMT isn't particularly hard, it's not easy without the proper equipment, and not very safe either.
I have a few procedures on it, and the one I mentioned is probably the safest route, meaning, you don't have to use Lithium Aluminum Hydride, something that most chemists (including myself) cringe at whenever they just hear those words.

my advice to SWIY is, purchase some root bark, and do multiple extractions on it; that's the best way to avoid trouble, and blowing SWIY up (I'm not even kidding).

and yeah, DMT is, by far, more rare on the streets than LSD. Personally, I wouldn't try to sell the stuff (out of principle), and there really isn't a market for it anyway.