London murder rate rises higher than NY City

can you supply some evidence to back up what you say? Why do you say London police are afraid to be "perceived as racist or Islamophobic?" Do you get your information from Trump's save racist source in the UK? He did use a fake video on one of his tweets, did he not?

 

Amazing - crap piled on shit - oh that 6 definitely knows how to defecate LOL

Well the usual right wing numbers con has been dealt with but what about the rest of the shit?

‘rapidly replacing its native population’ what the fuck is the ‘native population’ of London for fuck sake? Come to that what is the ‘native population’ of Britain?

I was born 300 miles away from London and I’m of Celtic stock (Hungarian possibly) with a bit of Irish and Scot on one side and I believe Norman (French that were immigrants themselves from Scandinavia) on the other and along the way I’ve probably picked up a bit of Roman (Italian), Anglo-Saxon (German), Norse (more Scandinavians) etc. My wife was born 250 miles from London is mainly Anglo-Saxon (German) but also twenty percent Ashkenazi Jew, with a mix of French (Huguenot) and Spanish with a bit of Moroccan.

The UK has had numerous waves of immigration and in recent years has added people from all over the world (due to the British Empire) and even more recently from the EU mainly I believe from Poland.

I mean how many in the US are the ‘native population’ of the North American land mass? I mean even those that are referred to as ‘Native Americans’ only arrived some 20,000 years ago and the migration (forced and otherwise) from Europe and Africa only began in the 16th century and large numbers only go back to what, the late 19th and early 20thCentury.

So who do you mean? Which ethnic group of those that have arrived in the UK do you mean? Was it the Beaker people from 2500BC they wiped out some 90% of the pervious inhabitants (manly through disease), or is it the Romans, or the German Anglo-Saxons or the Scandinavians, or the more recent groups the Jewish, the Indians or is it by any chance the Afro-Caribbeans 6 is alluding too?

Fact is that today we live in one of the least violent times in our history I mean just look at the history of the Europe for fuck sake- anyway

A study of the university town of Oxford in the 1340's showed an extraordinarily high annual rate of about 110 per 100,000 people. Studies of London in the first half of the 14th century determined a homicide rate of 36 to 52 per 100,000 people per year. By contrast, the 1993 homicide rate in New York City was 25.9 per 100,000. The 1992 national homicide rate for the United States was 9.3 per 100,000.

Thing is that murder rates go up and down but the trend over the last 500 years has been one of decline so much so that in the UK we expect them to be low and it’s actually a testament to that that the recent murders have caused so much comment and soul searching.

So it seem to me that it is the height of hypocrisy for people on the right in US politics to be crowing at a slight blip in UK murder rates when they pale in comparison to those of the US.

 

I live in one of the London boroughs where one of the recent murders occurred, do l live in fear, do I feel so frighten like so many Americans I think I need a gun to protect me and my family, oh please get a grip of course I don’t because I have sense of perspective and plain old common sense, and I’ve just sent my 13 year old daughter, on her own, down to the local shop to get some milk, do I think she needs to be armed – hell no.

The thing about violence in London amongst many young people is that it is well known and there have been some success in tackling it BUT recently the effects of the right wing policy of enforced austerity (for ideologically political and not economic reasons) has resulted in increased poverty and a sense of lack of hope of vulnerable people while cutting the funding of those that were trying to tackle the violence, social services, educational institutions, charities and the police force.

And the present Conservative government knows all this but is happy to ignore all that and put the blame on the illegal drug trade and I agree that is a problem and government could do something about that which is to change the UK’s present drug policy from one of prohibition to one of legalisation and regulation, with an emphasis on health care not a stupid ‘war on drugs’. But that isn’t going to happen under this government.

What we have in the UK is a right wing government and its fellow travellers creating situations that are bounded to have bad outcomes then pretending shock when that happens.

 

And yet when this happens in the USA, and firearms are used because we're allowed to have them, it's definitely a problem with firearms.

 

'When this happens'? That discussion is about mass shootings. And yes, that's a problem with firearms, which is for a large part caused because people can get them too easy. Nice try.

 

Subtract mass shootings from the number, and we've still got a huge problem with young people killing one another in large numbers. Are you saying that the USA only has a gun problem because of a few mass shootings vs. stabbings?

 

Or could it be we've got the same issues as everywhere else, but are allowed to own firearms?

 

hence the much higher body count.

 

No. The body count would be about the same with or without guns.

 

So Americans are just more murderous and savage than their other developed world counterparts?

 

It's largely due to poverty rates. High poverty rates beget high crime rates.

America doesn't have much in the way of a social safety net.

 

America has a culture of the gun being a solution. It's why when people get mad in the heat of the moment they use the gun. A lot of people have no criminal record before they loose their temper one time. All the gun owners I have been around thought and planned about using the gun in a way I never did. Every bump in the night, every argument with a neighbor always ended with the threat of using the gun. They have it because they are scared something is going to hurt them and the thought dominates their life. That is why even now the peaceful protests require them to open carry. It's a threat, don't take this away or I will kill you.

The whole culture reminds me of this scene from Friday. In other countries you might just get punched for arguing with your neighbor.

 

I've only ever heard of people like that, from people like you. Never actually met anyone like that. And anyone resorting to a firearm because of a disagreement, would use a gun, bat, knife or their fist to achieve the same end. Irrational doesn't happen because of the firearm.

 

I agree. Perhaps addressing those issues is part of the larger solution.

 

If you are pro gun you by default carry the attitude. It's a part of your life and their life will end before yours. . What is normal day to day life for you seems like a scary life to other people.

 

I hope you just forgot the sarcasm font, and don't really believe that is true.

 

If you are anti-gun, then by default you carry the attitude.

And who are you referring to in your last sentence. It's not very clear.

 

Oh and here we go again...

Already covered (many many many many...times) - doesn’t stand up to scrutiny - please address outstanding criticisms of these statements.

 

AT

This has been covered at length and in detail many, many times on the forum and beyond (oh I do wish gun lobbyist would read) - anyway in simple terms – so while social and economic factors have an impact on crime and homicide rates access to guns makes any confrontation much more likely to end in death or serious injury.

Many people have a tendency to think in black or white - it’s either totally one thing or totally another but that’s too simplistic in the real world things are a bit more nuanced and complex.

The problem with the gun lobby is that they want people to think simplistically they want them to think either or – and in their case they want people to think anything else but guns.

The other problem here is that there is another factor and that is politics. The majority of gun lobbyists lean to the right and toward Social Darwinist forms of thinking in social and economic areas. As such they are often opposed to the kind of social and economic reforms needed to tackle poverty such as decent welfare and universal healthcare.

 

Never heard of anyone killing 58 people with a knife from 500 yards away in his hotel room

 

Gun availability has a low correlation with homicide rates.

The vast majority of homicides are one-on-one close-range affairs that can easily be carried out with a knife.