London Burns - Riots all around England

LOL "yeah it's the conservatives or whatevah..."

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14486900

"legal conveyerbelt"

Yeah, I think one kangaroo trial after the next will show those punks what's up, they'll all just stop and go home. Heavy-handed "police" work started this, and will surely bring it to a satisfactory close, as well, right?

Maybe they'll stop the riots now, but the resentment will just spawn the next, in one, three, ten or however many months.

If they understood this, there wouldn't be riots now.

 

what Orison said and i'd like to add firstly, that it is not only kids doing this... there are allsorts in there (true, that most of the dispossessed youths are from poor areas, and poor areas house a large proportion of black people), but as i said, all sorts were actually there, because others, from maybe slightly better backgrounds, can also see exactly what is going on... there was even a teachers assistant in there for gawd sake... this is not just a race thing...

secondly, you may have missed my posts earlier in the thread... the youths have had, not just one, but many services taken from them... youth club cuts for one... youth club might not sound important, but they are points of entry for some of these dispossessed kids lives... if they need it, they receive assistance from experienced professionals... this kind of service may be available to convicted offenders, but it should be made available again to the youths who need it...

places that used to help with employment have all shut, ofcourse, because there are no jobs anyway... well, few... maybe...

add to that the fact that these kids are subjected to harassment from the police on a daily basis... they haven't anywhere inside to go, so they meet up with mates on the street and go places outside... they look like gangs, but they are just mates together... police attitude is generally bad and provocative... witnessed it with mine own eyes on several occasions, and heard about it from several other people i know...

also, burning and looting, are an expression of rage, that cannot be held back... i am NOT condoning their behaviour, but i do think the youths need to be given tools to deal with their emotions... i also think, more importantly, that the Police should be re-instructed in the art of not starting a riot ie, they should not hesitate to give information to a family who have just had their Mark (Mark Duggan R.I.P.) taken from them... shot... dead... by a Policeman, and it now transpires that Mark hadn't even fired a shot... however, guilty or not, the police should have dealt with the family in a more respectful way...

this is another example of bad police attitude... what first started the WHOLE thing... the flashpoint, was a 16 year old girl confronting a policeman, doing something very minor that got blown into something way more major, and getting set upon by 15 police officers with batons!!!

THAT was the real flash point...

you can see from many videos, that once the riots and fires were underway, police had obviously been instructed to not stop the looting etc... they were blatantly ignoring the destruction of businesses... why?, i wonder...

and about the shitting in their backyard... so many no longer feel community... they no longer feel it is their backyard... there are some that do, people who know more of what is going on in the world... can see the cause and effect plainly... they felt they were fighting the same battle as their brothers and sisters, across the board... the real violence came from extreme cases, and i mean nut cases, who are in amongst us anyways... so, bound to be a few real bad incidents where people are hurt/killed... not condoning, just saying...

:ssmokeit:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-14486905

That challenge should go out to everyone.

To those of you who are saying "the rioters should and shouldn't, they need this and that"... I'll say this one more time: You can't expect them to think like you. They don't know what you know. They don't think like you think. They don't have the mental toolset to critically think about their situation, they were never taught to reason in that manner.

If you don't understand that, then you just plain don't understand and maybe you should just shut up and carry on living your life as you were and expect the next riots to be bigger.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/11/fast-track-justice-courts-riots

just to illustrate that it isn't all black youths getting involved... this is unheard of and that is hardly being remarked upon, if at all...

 

I meant screw private property as the issue here, and the people I was referring to are the ones in this thread.

 

^^^^^ yup! brrrrrrrup!!!! ultimately, people are more important that private property, but that doesn't seem to play out in incidents such as this... we seem to have forgotten some very important principles, living in the consumerist culture in which we find ourselves...

 

Ultimately, the rioting depicts a deep-rooted social rot, and that lies outside the bounds of judgement from those outside of those social conditions.

This makes me think of the conditions of large cities like London and New York in the late 1800s, early 1900s when rapid industrialization was creating horrid living conditions. Unions, social programs, improvement of living conditions overall changed society for the better during that time period. Preaching about morality, respect for private property, personal responsiblity didn't really do shit.

Yes, its disrespectful and ignorant to destroy personal property. But isn't it also disrespectful to see social unrest like this and overlook the root cause of the unrest?

Many people in this thread are college educated. Most or at least some probably grew up in solid, middle class homes. I think its a little hard to pass judgement from that position on someone that comes from a society where work is hard to find, idleness is a way of life, and day to day life is a perpetual struggle. Not to mention the lofty ideals that are being thrown around in this thread are never once introduced into many of these kids' lives.

This is not a meaningful revolution. Its a bunch of young punks who haven't had any advantages in life fucking shit up. I don't think anyone should elevate it to anything higher than that. One also shouldn't condemn the individuals involved in this unless one has grown up or spent substantial amounts of time in similiar social climates.

 

It would be nice if governments could say "well, we all have our different viewpoints" and let that be the end of it, but seeing as they suffer from the same affliction you can't expect them to be neutral. When the Chinese students rioted in Tiananmen square and police reacted violently, all the western countries supported the protesters and all the pro-communist governments supported the police. Whatever Britain's dominant culture and politics are they will want to instil those values.

 

completely agreed with your post Meliai, up until this bit near the end... my whole point is that the media have manipulated information in subtle ways... the heat is taken off the area everyone is looking at, and placed elsewhere... if there is one thing in this life i can't stand, it is manipulation and lies... it wasn't just a bunch of young punks tho was it... as i said allsorts were there.... this is not widely reported... yes, the really fucked up ones were doing the real violent stuff, but there were many just caught up in the moment and frustrated with things as they are... yes, it does have racial tones to it, but it is by no means a completely racial thing either... the media turn it into that so that it looks that way... and, indeed, it ended that way... you have been watching...... etc etc etc :biker:

and there will always be others kicking back at the system, which is ever evolving/changing...

 

Revealed (by the Daily Mail) The middle class rioters that took part.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Laura-Johnson-Natasha-Reid-Stefan-Hoyle.html

 

Therein lies the problem.

This clip shows the police harassing and apparently assaulting an innocent bystander who was filming someone being stopped and searched, both were black.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uo65wFKIpXY

Don't know why this isn't embedding.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14501282

 

Prison population is at a record high following the riots in the UK. They are considering adding an extra to bed to some two-bed cells to cope with the extra numbers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14507043

 

Here's the thing though, the people rioting are attacking innocent people, homes and buildings. I understand the fact that some are seemingly rioting with somewhat of a purpose, while others joined in just to cause havok, but all in all I don't think it's a very great way to get one's message across.

Let's say people were angry at a certain politician, it would make sense to have a sit in at that MP's office, block access to it, or maybe even break the windows of the place.

But to randomly attack stores, businesses, people, pubs, homes, etc. is just fucking ignorant, destructive, pointless, and juvenile. That's just my opinion though.

Violence and destruction will only ever be met with force from the authorities. If people really wanted to send a message to the corporate world, they'd be better of to quit their consumeristic habits, leaving corporations with lost profits. That would send a message. Or to quit voting in elections, that would send a message. Or they could always ignore what they didn't like and drop out, the route the counter-culture of the 1960's took.

Destroying public property sends the message, "I'm an uneducated turd with no appreciation or respect for other people's well-being."

 

You can't expect them to think like you. They don't know what you know. They don't think like you think. They don't have the mental toolset to critically think about their situation, they were never taught to reason in that manner.

 

I'm not at all sure about that. Place them in a comfy rich home at the top echelons of the social stratum, would they have any reason to riot?

 

Most likely they wouldn't. The fact that most are stealing anything they can get their hands on says a lot.


Funny isn't it, they're raging against the man and corporations, yet they're stealing i-pods and wide screen Sony's...

"I fucking hate you, but I love that shit you sell."

 

I'm just not convinced that most of them, or at least the ones breaking into shops and stealing shit, are trying to get any specific message across besides "I'm pissed as fuck at my lot in life and I wasn't raised to know any better."

Still. Social unrest of any sort requires a deep examination of the root cause.

 

Thus is the effects of an overly policed, monitored and secure society.