Lifestyle and Revolution

Yes, I understand now that perhaps the way I worded it likely came across in that way.

A common error on my part. My wording is often poor due to the enthusiasm behind my posts.

However it was never intentionally employed to hurt anyone. All I was ever really trying to say was that, we can live lives that benefit ourselves, but the world's problems will always be there. Thus if more people tried/wanted to live lives that benefited us all, we'd likely be better off.

If we could somehow figure out a way to live, a substitute for modern society, that would benefit us all, then perhaps we could live in peace.

Rather than a select, strong few benefiting from their own resources, we'd all benefit. Because the truth of the matter is that not everyone can build for themselves what some others have.

 

The truth of the matter is the majority never even think to try.

 

Yes. I see this now. I don't know why I didn't before, but anyways, I agree. The problems lies in people's inability to see beyond the scope of their own lives/lifespan and realize that a change in lifestyle would be more beneficial to all in the end. In a word; selfishness

You're right. I apologize. It's counterproductive.

However I was referring to people who choose to avoid the world by living said lifestyle for their own benefit, purposely cut off from anyone else. Not people such as yourself who try to share it by opening up their homes to anyone else who would like the same thing.

 

But in a world of over consumers, anyone who willing consumes a substantial amount less then most is a benefit to all. Although its not possible everyone would do so, if they did, this issue would be moot.

I think that what is at the heart of this (and a lot of other things I post along these lines) is that everyone is so concerned that everyone else is doing it wrong, that they don't end up doing anything themselves.

'It' in that case is just about anything you want to put there...

It isn't hard to make a positive difference in the world around us.... it's just hard to make that first step away from the safety of the known and comfortable...

We let ourselves get distracted by silly meaningless things, that seem to take on a life of their own that always keep us from actually making that first step.

I would rather see 100 people go out and try to find a different path and fail, then see 1 succeed in conventional life.

Compare what it is for a person to come somewhere like here today, with what it was like back in the 60s and 70s...

Then, you went into the middle of nowhere and literally took your life in your hands... if the people there turned out to be freaks (the bad kind), you would screwed... No way to contact anyone outside, no way to really tell anyone where you were going... (I heard of this place out in cali that I am going to go find, sorta thing)... Even it they turned out to be great people, those that were there was it... you couldn't turn on a computer and chat with poeple around the world...

Now, the only real difference between being out here and in a city is access to goods... which are one of the things we are trying to do with less anyways...

Does this lead to more people going to find alternative communities?

I don't think so... In fact, I think it leads to less people doing so... Someone who likely would have went out to find a place back then on the rumours of a more natural and free lifestyle, is more likely to read up on things online and see all the negatives that come along with it and change their minds without even trying...

Now, I'm not trying to find things to counter here from you... lol

but lol

Stop and think about what selfish means.. beyond the common, "being selfish is bad" line...

Have you not told people in other threads (and likely in real life) that they should be more concerned with finding their own happiness? In not looking for it in others? In being concerned with their... self?

 

Yes. I do it all the time.

I suppose I just figure people can go out and get what they want and find their own happiness without being selfish.

Being concerned for oneself isn't the same as being selfish in my opinion.

Being concerned for oneself first is simply taking care of yourself, such as we all do on a regular basis, (I'm hungry, I'm need to eat before I get this job done for *enter customer name*)

Selfishness is always putting oneself first even when it is at the expense of others.

 

I've been letting this roll over in my head for a while... and I just can't agree.

If you don't put yourself first, who will?

I don't think it's selfishness which is the problem... It's when selfishness is combined with greed that it causes the problems I think you are blaming on selfishness...

 

I think most of you are overly pessimistic about society.

 

Get rid of the overly part and I won't disagree.

The overly part though... I actually think that I give humans and what we are doing to both ourselves and our planet a lot more credit then I usually display.

 

Bullshit. Maybe if you were forced at gunpoint to borrow the money, but nothing is going on that you haven't signed up for.

You are renting the money, just like you could rent a tool from the hardware store instead of buying it. Why should you be entitled to use something that doesn't belong to you and never give it back?

Don't sign up for credit cards if you suck at using money. I guarantee you will in over your head and stuck there.

 

Most are just content as long as they feel they're getting their own slice of the pie. Most who realise that society's fucked up and screws over most who aren't rich are a little pessimistic about society. It's always easier to just say, "that's the way things are."

 

:2thumbsup:

Another way to put this, is that you should honor your word.

 

I think what he meant was that when you borrow money the interest they collect off you is technically being robbed in that they're taking money that 1) wasn't part of the deal because it technically doesn't exist. 2) They jack up the rates to get as much as possible out of you and keepy you stuck in an endless cycle of only being able to pay the interest without barely touching the actual loan (or whatever).

Yes, technically the person agrees to it, what choice do most people who need to borrow money have? That doesn't make it any better or right. It's still fucked up.


"Because of bad loans, falling housing prices, a 9.7 percent average nationwide unemployment rate and high family debt, more than six million families were 60 or more days delinquent on their home loans as of February 2010, according to the Congressional Oversight Panel, a group appointed by the U.S. Senate to track Treasury Department programmes."

"The highly questionable, predatory refinancing loans with unfair terms and high interest rates were aimed at African American and Latino homeowners. More than 80 percent of those at City Life's meetings are people of colour. The growing activism around evictions can be likened to the anti-segregation protests of the 1960s, Meacham said."

""It was supposed to be a 30-year fixed mortgage but payments went from 2,100 dollars a month to 3,500 dollars. We were tricked," Taylor told IPS. The loan holder, Ameriquest, refused to negotiate, she said."


Many of the US mortgages that fucked people over weren't even legal apparently.

 

Yes. Thankyou. :mickey:

 

I always found this one interesting...

On one hand, yes, the banks and finance companies did take advantage of people...

On the other hand, if people weren't trying to live right at the very edge of their means, in order to impress their friends and family, they wouldn't put themselves in this position.

There is nothing wrong with getting a mortgage and paying interest on it. If you can afford it.

If you have 1500 a month for shelter costs, and you take a mortgage that brings your shelter costs to 1499 a month, you have just screwed yourself unless things go perfectly, and we all know how often things go perfectly.

 

I think you have to differentiate between types of loans here. If you put a new TV on your credit card, and interest was outlined in the deal, well, tough shit.

But I find it hard to compare that to situations where families go to Payday loans so their kids can eat the rest of the week. That almost is a gun to the head.

Sadly enough, guess which loan costs more.

 

This is false... If a person chooses to take a payday loan, they are choosing to reduce the amount of money (hence food) they will ever have for their children.

If a person falls into that trap, they should take the last payday loan they get and stock up on no name mac and cheese and mr noodles or other cheap crap to last through til they can actually get their pay or whatever they get without losing the 29% or whatever it is...

 

this thread contains more of lunarverses fookin' ginormous sig than it does content! :mickey:

but yeah... convince the people to change their lifestyle and you have in effect enabled a fully functional revolution... governments have been doing this for centuries

buy some media exposure and give it a try :sunny:

 

You know, that's something that I've seriously thought could work.

I'm sure I'm not going to be well liked for saying what I'm about to say, but that's the nature of human beings having discussions;


I've often thought that the main problem, or at least why the hippie movement didn't do any better was mostly because of the disorganization. I mean that in the sense that them and like minded people today have to understand the way change in society happens, they essentially have to play for their audience. Change won't come from shouting from the street corner. People respond to what they know. People know the media.

The whole idea of the movement I understand is that people should largely govern themselves, no leaders, etc. But the thing about leaders and organization is not that it's a polical tactic we should hate of fear, it's simply something that human beings on a base level respond to.

Human beings respond well to organization because it gives the impression of action, and it gives a sense of purpose. If some sort of group or commitee formed and had an interest in politics or some form of societal change, people would dig it I think. The problem is that with the "hippie" sort of ideals, most feel that having a leader is bad or having a face for the movement is bad, largely because it leads to greed. They largely oppose politics altogether rather than trying to get their foot in the door through that medium, which again, the mass amount of people recognize, know, and understand. They'd be much more responsive to change on that level.

But the thing is, it's hard to organize and get shit done without someone at least being the poster face for the cause. Say in politics or meeting format, who'll talk one on one with other leaders, political people, address courts, etc? You can't have a group of 300+ hippies show up and just start talking.

Lack of presentable organization and the unwillingness to accept some form of leader are the two biggest things holding back any significant change. Society won't respond well to people squating, protesting all the time, etc.

The media for the most part is shit, but only because of what plays through the media. It can be an incredible tool for bringing people together if it is used as a tool to promote good change.

As long as strongly opposing the idea of a leader and media/promotional tactics are frowned upon, it'll always be an uphill climb.

 

IF I could do more I would. I am flat broke right now. Seriously flat broke, the last things I bought, was weed, and food, and clothes adn toys for my kids. That is it!
I have no money till the 1st. I go at least one or two weeks without any money, but I have all I need, bc we somehow budget enough to get by. If I had more money, I honestly think I could do more. I could afford to travel and help out at soup kitchens, open my house to other people, ( if I legally could do so, right nwo I can not).
I think the problem is, those of us who want to help, do not have the means to do so, and I dont even have the means, to live off the grid, and help the planet for awhile, bc you do need some money to start it uot, like buying property, and supplies. So I feel kinda stuck at the moment, when I am not flat broke, I do what I can to help, like giving a free meal for a homeless guy, protest the government (when I have money to get there), etc. But really the sad part is, if you want to do soem thing,s to help out you need more money. that is the sad part of the world, to help out others, money is a necessary problem. I dont like this way of looking around. but what can I do, right now we have been selling most of what we have, just to make ends meet, and last month I donated a bunch of baby clothes, a brand new tv, etc to people who needed it. but the big stuff I want to do, I can't bc they involve money. How do I solve this problem lunarverse, I am not being mean at asking this, but how do I really change things, when I can not even get a job to make more money to help more people out?? Or do more. I do what I can, that doesnt cost money, but it is a very small thing, not the stuff I really wish I could do, I would love to start another halfway home for homeless, but I have nowhere near the money to do so. I would love to make more changes. I am up for suggestions. I am sure my post might irritate some. but this is the reality of living in a world revolving around money. I try to avoid it, I dont have any credit cards, I dont do loans, I have the bare minimum of bills, but I dont have much money to do help anyone out with. to start making big changes.

 

I know what needs to be changed, but I'm still confused as to what the best means are.

To be honest the internet is a great (free) way to help out as little as you can. I don't know what your stance is on legalizing cannabis, but right now there are many people who one can write to express their distaste for drug prohibition.

I too have very little money, to be honest I have none really, so I help in the ways that I can. Over the internet I've written many mps, I've written the prime minster, political leaders, etc. Some I wrote about the fact that cannabis legalization really needs to be considered and fought for because the "war on drugs" has not worked. You can write about political prisoners, write to oppose new bills and laws, etc.

Sure, donating money to the cause is good, but unfortunately we can't all do that. It's best to just do what we can within our means. Someday when I have the money to give I will, but for now I don't so I find other ways. Time and energy is often just as effective.

The reality of it is that people have lives. Not everyone has the time or the means to do what they'd like to do as life gets in the way. This stops a lot of people from getting involved, but that's life.

There are always ways out there to help, the internet is a great one. It's a great medium for meeting like minded people and it's a great way to contact those people you might otherwise not be able to.

It's better to do whatever you can no matter how small than to do nothing. Every single action has a reaction, no matter how small.