John the Baptist

Jesus didn't die on the cross...

I say the following as an atheist who likes Jesus:

His wife and friends snuck by in the middle of the night while he was still barely alive, took him down, brought him to "tomb", and nursed him back to health. Then there's Doubting Thomas, whom probly went off and drunk a shitload of wine, thinking Jesus was dead, so he wasn't in on any of it. When he saw Jesus's ghost, he was really just seeing Jesus for the first time since the crucifixion, and up til then he thought he was dead. They then of course, showed him the wounds (after removing the bandages of course). Now, i don't recall how long Jeez "stayed on earth" but i believe it was about a month wasn't it... or 40 days, sumfin' like that... anyway, during that, Jesus chose Peter to be the new "leader of the faith" (or whatever) and other stuff. After 40 days or whatever, he and his wife (or wives, whichever you chose to believe) went into "hiding" for the rest of their lives and raised a family... and they all lived happily ever after!

But that's just my theory

PS: Also, Jesus didn't "die for our sins"... he died for what he believed in... thank you for yer time and peace, man...

 

please...

all catholics are christians...
not all christians are catholics...

(construct boolean logic diagram, OK?)


imho...


oh, and hindus can think a lot about god...

(i think that jesus is regarded by some as an avatar of krishna?)

the story of carpenter/rabbi who is claimed as messiah by christians (even tho' they're not quite sure what a "messiah" is, or was, back in the day, hehheh...) has had an undeniable effect on the flow of history on this weary world of ours...

who (or Who) he was (or for some even if he was) will be a matter of some debate until the end of time (or until the rapture, whichever comes first, mmmkay?)

shalom...

 

On your first point, that not all Christians are Catholics, some extreme elements within the Catholic Church might not agree. However, the official position would support your point, since Vatican II.

Hindus do indeed believe that Jesus was an Avatar, He was the Son of God.
From the Vedic perspective there is no problem at all with accepting that as true.

 

Ooh, can I join? I have never fucked an idiot.

But seriously . . .

I understand your frustration. There has always been an imprecision of thought and language, which seems to have only gotten worse, that tends to obscure the quality of the thing discussed. Is it wrong to be so inarticulate?

Learn to ask good questions, relentlessly, and I promise you, you will see a bigger picture than you do now.

So, of what am I ignorant? Enlighten me.

Is it really as simple as that? Well then, please clarify the path you offer out of my presumption, explain the mystic wonders of your complexity as it relates to such a simpleton as I. Please, share the mind-expanding convolutions of your neo-para-mythic intellect. Please, expound upon your untethered wisdom in all its dis-integrated abundance. I am curious now about the presumed superiority of your vision to anything that now exists.

I am more amused than offended, so the non-existence of your non-apology is as much a non-mystery as the elementally simple answer to your unasked question: What is how what is?

Do you have any other ideas?

You mean like "Love one another"? You have to wonder what kind of person would live their life according to such a simple idea. And what kind of person brings up such an idea on a hippy forum?

Do you have any other ideas?

What if everyone actually did love one another. Maybe then we wouldn't need any reminders.

So, what do YOU follow?

 

I guess only a) an idiot b) one engaged in f*****g idiots (this is the Christianity forum)
or c) an incurablable optimist??

Whatcha think?

 

Can someone who is illiterate still be a Christian? of course! Can tribes of people living in nature without Bibles, Televisions and Computers be Christians? Yes!
We would be forced to turn to God Himself if His written word was not on this Earth. Might even be better!

You know why so many people hate Christians? I have 2 answers:

1. Christians are not doing what we have been called to do, which is to love one another. Treat others how we want to be treated, share our possessions, care for our fellow man. We are too busy saying we are right and trying to force that on people instead of just letting go and letting God. He is the judge. What we should be doing is simple. Love!

2. It's the only true Religion, so it's gonna get the most flack. Jesus started Christianity. He is the Christ! and look how much they hated him! Execution!They beat him for hours and nailed him to a cross and left him there to die. They were going to break his legs to make sure he was dead, but He was already gone so they didn't. And what did He do? He didn't say a word because he was dying for those people too. He loved them and asked God in Heaven to forgive them. this is the guy we follow. This is our passion. This is LOVE

 

I don't feel much pressure from Christians trying to force their view that they are right on me. Or even their ideas of religion etc. Probably because Christianity is in something of a decline?
As to Christianity being the only true religion, that is a divisive and really a very limited view.But one all too many proffessed Christians adopt.
Some even say its only their particular church that posseses truth and whose members can hope for salvation. Such notions are retrogressive and simplistic. They show more a warped emotional hysteria than anything resembling spirituality.

 

It is quite possible that I am a) an idiot or c) an incurable optimist, but I stand by my claim that I have never f****d any idiots.

 

Glad to hear it. ....but I mean, the idea of love in a hippy forum! Whatever next!!

 

I don't feel much pressure from Christians trying to force their view that they are right on me. Or even their ideas of religion etc. Probably because Christianity is in something of a decline?
As to Christianity being the only true religion, that is a divisive and really a very limited view.But one all too many proffessed Christians adopt.
Some even say its only their particular church that posseses truth and whose members can hope for salvation. Such notions are retrogressive and simplistic. They show more a warped emotional hysteria than anything resembling spirituality.


I am glad you havn't had any Christians trying to force thier beliefs on you, that is a good thing. Christianity IS in a decline because the world is getting increasingly evil, all of this is inevitable, and written in the Bible.
Doesn't every religion think thiers is the only true religion? Why is it any different for Christians? We feel we know the truth so why wouldn't we? I don't think it's limited, I think it is courageous and open minded, believing in a Creator who made us to love and be loved by Him rather than running around following other people and trying to fill our God-shaped holes with endless materialistic junk, when none of it will satisfy.
I know what you mean about certain churches thinking they are the chosen few. What they fail to recognize is that Jesus is for everyone, for all people of all tribes and tongues and nations. Where they got that weird idea, i don't know, there is nothing in the Bible to support thier claims. It IS warped, and not a good witness to the world about what the true Christian faith is all about.

 

I agree that it is a good thing to believe in God, and to follow a spiritual path.
However, it's not true that all other religions think their's to be the only true religion. To followers of Hinduism, Jesus is accepted as an Avatar, or Divine incarnation. Different religions are seen as so many paths leading to the same One God. The great 19th century Indian saint, Sri Ramakrishna practiced both Hindu and Christian paths, and said they lead to the same God because they are from the same God.
You are right when you say that many so called Christians have a warped idea of it, but I know that there are many sincere Christians, and I have respect for them, and of course for Christianity in general.
One problem I have with it is the fact that it is so much a part of the establishment, at least here in the UK. Its as though the British ruling class long ago appropriated the Christian agenda, and subordinated it to their own political goals. The results of this are still very evident, as for instance, in the fact that the Queen of England is also head of the Church of England. And as one who has had first hand experience of the English 'upper-class', I can tell you that they are very far from anything I would recognize as Christianity.
But the true Christianity is great, and lets hope the day comes when people can put aside their minor differences and accept one another in a spirit of respect and love.

 

there are many more religions than just christianity out there which also believe in things which seem irrational... whats with the witchhunt here? i personally think that many (not all ) christians have a problem in that they think they are right and if you do not believe as them you are wrong not only in belief but morally and damned.... but this applies to many other religions as well basically what many people are annoyed about are those christians who refuse to respect other peoples choices , lifestyles, religions and values.... and also that they try to encourage (force sometimes) their views on others..... well..... i think the starter of this forum in this subject is pretty much hippocritical cuz that is exactly what he is doing. choosing to believe in something does not qualify someone as an idiot. i understand some of the points you are trying to make but i think your way of approaching this issue is in extremely bad taste and reflects badly on you and the point you are trying to get across.

 

i do not think that all christians are idiots. there are idiots in every batch of people .. but that is all relative anyway.making generalizations like this especially in a tone used for the sole purpose of getting people excited about it... only distracts from the idea you are trying to communicate. . if you were talking about your opinion of the negative side of christianity ... or... why you disagree with christianity that would be one thing and im sure you could make some very interesting points on it.. but talking about why christians are fucking idiots is hardly an intellectual way of going about it. its almost like using filler words and emotional emphasis to distract from the loopholes in your debate.

 

im not saying that a person should never state their opinion any time that it might offend someone.... offending someone is not necessarily bad all the time.... but objective communication is the kind necessary in order for people to get a clearer understanding of it. ...

 

BlackBillBlake,

first of all, thankyou, I think this is the first "Christianity bashing" thread I've participated in where someone is actually intelligent enough to speak respectively.
and, Canada is based on Christianity as well, as well as the states. i guess it would be frustrating for an unbeliever and encouraging for a believer.
i am glad to read that you have met some real sincere Christians, that's great! At least you don't think we're all idiots like others.
And, AMEN to your last sentence. God called us to Unite. To tear down walls of prejudice and discrimination and build Unity, that's what we were meant for! That is why we are here.

 

Why is it that christians ask for proof that god exists when they have no proof themselves? why is it that tehre have only been several replies to the points ive actually raised, instead of insistant talk about how christianity is about love and all that? why is it that you could in any way judge the content of my writing be teh << spelling mistakes i make if you trully claim to be less of an idiot? and ill repeat, why is it that ive barely got any responses to actual issues ive raised, and instead almost all replies have been based on the language used or the tone of my writing? less imposrtantly, why is it that chrisitans seem to think swearing is a bad thing?

Im still waiting for responses ot the actual questions asked and issues raised instead of your own dribble about your religion.

and why must people think that you need god to be loving and with eachother? dont you see that if you get rid of god and realise people are the only intelligent creators on teh earth that that makes us more special? all religion actually does is DEVALUE live by making it somehting god can freely give and take, were jsut pawns to his ultimate goal. Being an athiest has made me apreciate life, and eachother whereas christianity preaches unconditionality. unconditionality leads to depreciation. If gods love is unconditional then how can it be comforting? its like winning a medal for a game you didnt win, everyone knwos you didnt win it, you knwo you didnt win it, who gets satifaction out of the medal?

well i think its incredibly uncourageous to beleive in life being simpy jsutified by a creator instead of beleiving in the enourmous, complex, sparce universe that has actualyl lead to life through factors ranging from quantum physics to cosmic reactions, and to precise conditions of environment that are so rare that we have not found any place jsut like them for lgiht years all aorund us.

for an analogy (because i love analogies), you would think its more courageous to believe in a lab created super human who took barely any effort to make and has barely any meaning behind its own creation over a person who had spend their whole life traniing and becoming the a superhuman themselves wihtout any help from anyone. which do you think is more deserving of respect?

cmon people respond directly to my issues, and dont critisise my writing for in reality it only shows shallowness and reasoning based on appropriation instead of truth.


and anyway, if the most true religion is teh one that recieves the most punishment then wouldnt that simply be relative to the time it is around? i mean, clearly the jews are the true religion, at least during world war 2, by your logic, and before christianity was around, maybe the anchient roman religions, they were 'flacked' out of existance alltogether. by some of your logic at least.

how do you think christianity would really work wihtout your bible? you would then have NO evidence, even supposed evidence, of anything to do with your religion. christianity cannot survive wihtout the bible. it would not be the written word of the lord, it would be the stories remembered by preists and religious figures. if they were to write a bible, i can assure you it would not be identical. so then christians would put their lives on the line for a book that wasnt even teh wrods of mark matthew luke and john. how can you serisouly think that your religion would function?

and my final point that i have mentioned already, is that you dont need religion to have love and peace. if you did, then that would mean your love and peace is not coming form your heart, its being done because your told to.

another closing question, what would you, as christians do, if you knew god was not going to forgive you for your sins and you knew you were NOT going to heaven. you were going to get NOT holy recognition or love or forgiveness. answer as truthfully as you can for your respect's sake.

 

oh and i dont know about canada, but are you honselty saying the american way is in any way christian except its right wing-ness which is most close to catholisism, which most of you have been putting down? to quote other poeple in here, this is a hippy baord, and america is the opposite to being a hippy. i dont see how anyone could make a claim against calling someone who beleived the american system is based on freedom and love and peace an idiot.

 

Actually it proves a great deal. Because the bible clearly states that the flood covered the whole earth, even to the highest mountain. The pillar lava confirms that the Bible acount is accurate. And if the water was as high as 14,000 feet, the only chance for humans to survive such a catastrophe would without question required the use of the ark.

 

the place to dispute that point is in the noah 2004 thread where youll find proper disputation.

 

Well StonerBill, I don't recall seeing any real questions before hand. I did leave you a reply to show me the light and teach me your ways and proove yourself to be right in your opinions. Mostly what I saw was an uneducated person complaining about something he didn't understand. So you will have to excuse me for not answering to your complaints.

Anyways, here ya go:

We do have proof. The world for one. You, the people replying in this thread, myself, the animals and trees around us. I refuse to believe that all this was created because some microbe formed from some gas in a random explosion in space. I mean, in theory, if you could prove you knew how to create life from nothing, wouldn't you attempt it? Strangly, you take theories to be as fact, when they are in fact, just theories. As far as more proof. Well, just read The Bible. It is a perfect history book. No different than you reading about the Civil War in your history books in school. You wern't there were you? Yet you believe it happened. Well just as the Civil war has artifacts and witnesses, so does The Bible.

You are the one calling people idiots. I just pointed out the obvious. If you feel like an idiot because you spell like a 7 yr old well, that's your problem. Here is an idea. Write out your replies in Microsoft Word first and use the spell checker before posting.

I will repeat, it is because you wern't really asking any questions. You were more like crying and complaining because the big boy took your candy type thing.

Noone said you need God to love. As far as Christians trying to love one another, well, that was one of the teachings of Christ. You don't need God in order to love. That is aparent in some aspects of our human lives. However, that love is strengthend greatly when God is present. As far as humans being the only inteligent creatures on earth; Have you ever tried to keep a racoon out of your trash cans?

I am not talking about religions nor are you. You said Christians. You didn't say Baptists, Catholics, or Judeism, or any of the other religions. How does Christianity ruin your life? How do the teachings of Jesus Christ make you a bad person? If we were all to follow His teachings I promise the world would be a better place. Of course, that wonderful Book tells us that not all will accept Him(again, more proof).

Aparently you have never known unconditional love. I know I have. I know my son has. No matter what my son might do wrong, I will always love him. I promise you, that kind of love is very comforting. If my son had to worry about messing up in fear of loosing his fathers love, man what a nightmare life would be for him. Instead, he knows that no matter what happens I am there for him to gove him the love he needs. In that same aspect, God is there for me unconditionaly loving in all His glory. I know I will mess up, He knows I will mess up, but His love will always be there like a beackon guiding me.

I am skipping over your analogy because, well, it was a dumb one.

Do you call your teachers shallow for teachign you? If anything with your love of the truth, you would want to know about your mistakes and fix them. At any rate, I not being perfect, find it dificult to take anythign you say serious because of your writing skills. I find it hard to understand what it is you are trying to say. I mean come on, let's look at it from a different angle. If you and I were tryign to get the same Job, and the owner looked at your resume and mine, just from spelling alone what do you think his decision would be?

Who said anything like that? I personaly don't consider Christianity a religion. Yes I know according to theenglish definition it would be considered a religion. But in actuality, it isn't. Baptists is a religion. Catholicism(sp) is a religion. Neither of those are based directly on The Bible and the teachings of Christ. Chrisianity is the following and the accepting of Jesus Christ. Anyways, moving on. Jesus said He was the way the light and the truth and that no man shall enter Heaven without Him. So, to answer your real question, I think it was Jesus that said His way was the only way.

Well, you could attempt to rid the world of His teachings, but in reality Jesus would live on through us. Every Christian out there knows that to enter Heaven you must admit your sins, admit the Jesus is the Son of God, and that He is Lord of our lives. So, go on, take away what He did and said. I promise you though that even if all we could do to praise Jesus was a few sentences long we would still do it.

I already covered this above, so there ya go.

This is hard to answer because I know He has forgiven me of my sins and will forgive me of my future sins. I guess, in the end, I would be living a lie like the rest of the world. Living to please myself and no others. I would eventualy die, and because I did not know God, I would go to hell.

Now that I have addressed yur questions. It's your turn to answer mine. Baring in mind the proof we have today that events in The Bible did happen, proove to me that what I know to be true is false. Use your quantum physics, arithmatic, or anything else you can think of to proove that what you believe is the right thing to believe.

The ball is in your court. Here is your chance to shine. Oh yeah, and dont forget to use Microsoft Word first.